Episode Transcript
Nightlights.
As a kid, I was somewhat of a collector. At an early age, I developed a deep appreciation for the mellow glow of a thoughtfully placed incandescent bulb. Some of my peers in Sunday school had me pegged as a connoisseur, others a savant. Perhaps I was a little bit of both. Sitting there in my plastic chair, "McGee and Me" playing in the background, I would knock back pints of Tang and fist shots of goldfish while talking at length of the different makes and models of night's greatest ally. I was the Cliff Clavin of children's church. From the elaborate to the mundane, I had a nightlight for every occasion and season of my life: the Glo Worm as a toddler, a clown-with-balloons lamp as a child, a mesmerizing fiber optics number as a tween. But like any good know-it-all, the confidence and bravado I displayed on those Sunday mornings were mere overcompensation for a hidden truth.
Unbeknownst to the other regulars at my childhood church, I couldn't have cared less about my light's form, style, make, or model. Rather, the only quality that mattered, and one I would never admit, was this one and only useful function: to keep me alive until morning. Because as long as there was at least one four-watt bulb emanating light from somewhere in my bedroom-turned-nightmare-factory, I knew I stood a chance against every evil that lurked in the shadows. Because light not only exposes the problem, it also reveals the solution—lies and truth, respectively.
And as we know, truth sets us free. Free from all the shadowy figures prowling between the dresser and door, whispering in our ear that our fate is sealed, that light of day will never come. Plato once said, "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." For a guy who made children's modeling clay, he makes a good point.
As humans, we have a bent towards darkness, and this has been the case since darkness entered the world. Like a birthing pool in the yurt of a naturopath, we're born into it. But just because one's born into something doesn't make it permanent. Just ask Mr. Meghan Markle. Galatians 4:4-7 reads, "But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!' So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God."
To fear the light—and worse, to embrace darkness—is nothing more than a spiritual form of Stockholm syndrome. And like those who choose their captor over their savior, it is, by every sense of the word, tragic. Somewhere along the way, we learned to love darkness, and we believed it loved us back. We grew numb to its gaslighting, lies, and manipulation and believed we deserved the punishment it gave.
The relationship was unstable, toxic, a road to certain destruction. It was Sam and Diane minus the banter. And looking back at our own relationship with sin, we could say that our eyes were simply closed to the reality at hand. And perhaps they were. Or perhaps, like scared children in darkened rooms, we just needed a light to overcome the darkness. Thankfully, that light is here, and the night can't hold a candle to it. In the words of Jesus himself, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
So grab some Tang and pour a glass, because if there's anything deserving of a toast, it's finding light in a darkened world. And I'll certainly drink to that.
Cheers.
Well, welcome to another episode of The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al.
Today, the et al is once again your host, myself Chris, and we're joined with Mandy and Rogelio and Robyn once again. Welcome, everybody.
Well, our verse of the day, scripture of the day, we're looking at the book of John. Welcome to our first episode here of the Book of John. And reading out of the ESV, John 1, verses 1-5.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."
And interesting blog about light and darkness. And top line thoughts about light and what is light, what is light in the world? How does that manifest itself in our day to day lives?
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess what I was thinking when I was writing the blog and kind of going over it and thinking through about the topic and the issue of light is that Jesus is the light. And so he's the one that we need to look to. The world is it's dark, and it's been dark since sin entered the world. And so ever since then, it's—we need something, we need someone to guide us and someone to look towards in a darkened space. And so I think one of the things that I was thinking a little bit about was how sin is like a toxic relationship in the darkness. Like, we want it—and we think it's good—but it's not actually what we were intended for. And so just that, I don't know, just, again, how the enemy can definitely just, he can be manipulative, and the gaslighting, make us think that it's one thing, it's the other. And so, yeah, for me, I think just kind of the top line thoughts is just the importance of light and the importance of Jesus in this darkened time.
All right, very good.
Top line thoughts around the room, Mandy?
I'm thinking of a documentary called the Father of Lights in which it shows the light of the Holy Spirit through us and what that looks like to the world and how potent that it is. And it actually goes and follows three people and shows them showing the Holy Spirit to the world and how people react to that. And it is such a bright light in us. Like you said, in the world that is so dark and needs that light, we actually carry that light in us, that same light Jesus did, and we get to be that light in the world. And I think that it's really, it's much brighter than we realize, and it has much more potency to the people around us than we understand.
Very good.
Yeah.
Yeah. Ro, top line thoughts?
When I was listening to Jon, it made me realize that our intention isn't always in line with the result we get, or rather, what we think is the light can actually turn out to be darkness. And sometimes our intention is good. We want to help ourselves, and we go for certain things that don't end up as we expected, or vice-versa. We might sometimes look at suffering as all darkness, when sometimes there's a real, there's a kind of a maybe a process in suffering that can lead to greater light, and we can kind of avoid it when it's time to embrace it.
Yeah, that's good.
Good. Robyn, top line thoughts?
My first thought was, there's a line in your blog about being born into the darkness, which also makes me think of that line in The Dark Knight Rises. Bane talks about being born in the darkness.
All right. I like we're going with this.
Yeah. Well, actually, there's a few things in your blog, I think, that are reminiscent of that very movie, but—
What a lovely, lovely voice.
It's one of my favorite movies, but I think it just makes me think of that. I mean, I guess so many of us, depending on how you want to define it, but it is that we are born into the darkness until, you know, we know Jesus and Jesus is the light. Until we're introduced to Jesus and Jesus is the light, then we get so comfortable with the darkness that we don't even realize how detrimental it is or how, like, in so many ways, we could be suffering or perpetuating darkness or sin or all of those things. Because it is just what's comfortable. That sometimes even when you're face to face with the light or someone who exhibits light or truth or whatever that looks like, how uncomfortable that can be that we almost shy away from it. So, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts surrounding that concept.
Yeah.
And kind of like you're saying, really quick, it's like chronic pain. It's like you don't really understand how bad it is until you don't have it anymore, whether it's like a hip replacement or something like that. And so, yeah, sin is like chronic pain. And once you accept Christ, you don't realize how bad it was until that's no longer there.
Yeah. And even on that note, like, how uncomfortable it can be. Like, just if you're living in dysfunction, we'll say, we'll just, like, make a blanket like that. And then when you are encountering Jesus, like, even that—that cross over into health can be just so painful. Like, when Jesus starts to show you your sin or when he starts to show you the things that you've been through—like, it is, in the end, it's good, and it brings you into goodness—but how painful that can be to come from darkness that you're familiar with into the light, the process can be painful.
We become very comfortable in the uncomfortable.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, what are some indicators that someone is resistant to the light? And in your own experience with counseling or coaching or educating or managing people, if light is present, how do you perceive that someone is resisting the truth, resisting the light. Does it show up through denial, deception, deflection, blame? How can you tell that someone's avoiding the truth and avoiding the light?
All the above.
All the above? Trick question.
All of the above. No, it's like people, in my experience, they will double down on what they see is accurate or healthy. And, yeah, there can be a lot of denial. There can be a lot of, you know, finger pointing in other directions. And I do think that sometimes there's this bit of having a difficult time taking responsibility for what's going wrong in their lives. And I can certainly put myself in the same category, too. Growing up and over the years, like, there are some times that self-reflections were really important. And if we don't self-reflect and we don't say that we have a responsibility, and in the mess that perhaps we've gotten ourselves in, then it's just gonna be more mess for longer periods of time.
I would say that out on the streets with people, it's fascinating because we'll have tables set up and a long line of people and a lot of people praying and worship and whatnot. And you find these people that come into that, and they become very, very angry, and they can't tell you why. They're just very angry at the light and the truth that they find in it. But it's like watching them, they're almost stuck in a box. Like, they try to walk away and they end up turning around and coming back, and they try to go that way and they come back. It's like they can't quite escape the light. Because I think inherently, in us, we want the light, right? We want to be out of the darkness because that's our nature, is to be in the light. But it's fascinating to watch them kind of get stuck in that box until we leave. But you try to talk to them, and there's just a lot of anger there. And like you said, it's just really covering up those areas of our lives where we don't want to hear the truth. And truth just hurts. It's painful.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's true for all of us as well. I include myself in just the parts inside myself that are darkness and that pursuit of light is never easy because we can say we want it. And then, as you mentioned, Chris, we can sometimes kind of deflect our own true desires. We know what we want, but we don't always do it. And I think that's a universal struggle in humanity.
Yeah, I think Paul made a pretty good point of that. I do what I don't want to do, and I don't do what I do want to do. It's a very human thing, for sure.
Yeah. Speaking of Paul, supplemental scripture here in Ephesians 5 out of the ESV, I just looked up the word light and found something that seems somewhat connected to the scripture in your blog there or that your blog referenced. But basically, Ephesians chapter 5 beginning in verse 1, and we'll just read it all into through verse 17.
It says, "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,
'Awake, O sleeper,
and arise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.'
Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is."
Monster section there. But there's a lot in there.
There's a lot in there.
Last time we met, I talked about in Matthew how Jesus said, "Go and learn what this means," and then in that passage I just now read, it says, discern what the Lord's will is. Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord. There's a call to action to try to gain some knowledge here on what it is that God is wanting us to do and how to live. And I think it's interesting how it says there in verse 13, but anything—"But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light."
It's like a circular definition kind of a thing.
Right.
Light comes in and it becomes visible, and then that which was touched by the light now becomes light.
And I like how The Living Bible also kind of picks up on that, because the way it says it is—
pause for effect—
"But when you expose them, the light shines in upon their sin and shows it up, and when they see how wrong they really are, some of them may even become children of light!"
So that kind of confirms that just light coming into the room basically has that effect on people. Why would it talk about coarse joking as part of that? Now, isn't that, like, one of the most practical ways of light coming into the room? Like, in a workplace, for example, like, there's some jokes, and somebody doesn't laugh at the jokes, and then they realize that that's light, and they pick up on that, like, immediately.
Yeah, yeah.
Go ahead.
Oh, they don't like it if you don't laugh at their dirty joke. And it's like, and that is an interesting question. Like, maybe we've all had that experience where something just does not land right with us. Someone's joking around with something and we're just like, nope. And they're like, "what?" Like, "What 'what'?"
I don't know. It's. Yeah. When light exposes darkness, even by not saying anything, just living or not reacting a certain way, it does change the atmosphere of the room, and—
And sometimes it's uncomfortable.
And sometimes it's uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.
I think all the time that situation is uncomfortable.
Someone doesn't courtesy laugh at your joke. Oh, no.
Well, for the light bearer, also, it's uncomfortable because it's like.
Yeah, I can't condone that.
This feels gross.
Well, here's an extreme example out of Matthew 8 in verse 28, out of the ESV. "And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs, so fierce that no one could pass that way. And behold, they cried out, 'What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?'”
Now Jesus' presence is just there.
Right.
I don't think Jesus actually said anything. It doesn't say he said anything. But the light showed up. And they, it could be argued that they perceived that as torment.
Right.
And it was better for them to beg to be cast out into the pigs.
Yeah.
I mean, that's an example of presence being light.
Right.
Without even having to really say anything.
Well, quick story. Sorry, I don't want to monopolize, but when I've been invited to, like, parties or get togethers or like, whatever Halloween parties something like that. And the majority of the people that are there, they're not believers. So everybody's drinking. Everybody's getting drunk.
It seems like almost every time that I've been in an environment like that, I'll start, I'll have, I'll end up in conversation with one or two or three people about my faith. And, like, I'll tell the guy that's throwing the party, I'm like, like, dude, I didn't even. I didn't even bring this up. Like, I'm not the one that brought it up. Like, they're asking me about it because I'm not getting drunk, and they're curious about it. And so it's like, I don't even have to do anything. And it's just like, people want to know why, why is, why are things different with you? Like, why are you behaving differently? And so it's like, you don't have to do anything.
Right.
It's like, if you're. But if you're shining light—which hopefully, yeah, we are—yeah, things will happen.
It's interesting how light is a very spiritual concept as well, beyond being able to see with your eyes. Like, yeah, I mean, maybe you guys can help me know. How do we see? How do we see with our spirit?
Hmm. Hmm.
That's an interesting question.
That's a good question.
Holy Spirit connects us to God. Right?
So my first thought would be, you see it through scripture, through the word of God and through the Holy Spirit.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I guess it goes back to the truth, to Bible. I obviously think it's kind of interesting since the Bible is written by God. And I always think, like, I always kind of believe that the reason why you can read, you know, scripture ten different times and get ten different things depending on where you're at in life, is because the Holy Spirit's interacting with itself. Like, the word is interacting with the Holy Spirit living inside of you. And so it's this really supernatural thing that's happening. And that's why the word is living, is because it is active and interactive. And so maybe that's part of it, too, is we understand what light is through the word.
And, well, in here, in the scripture that we were, I think, "In him was life, and the life was the light of men." Like, the light is our very life, which suggests that the darkness is otherwise—death. You know?
Well, like you said, the children of light, we become the children of light. So, in a sense, as we said, born into darkness, and then the light shines on us. We're the children of light. And even in Revelation, it tells us that God himself will light up heaven, so for eternity, he will be our light that we live in and are part of.
Yeah, it's like the Bible talks about, like, the night is nearly over, the day is at hand. Like the times in which we now live are the dark times. But the light, the bigger light, the day is coming in which everything gets visible. I mean, so right now we are—there are lights among the darkness, but a time is coming when light becomes, like, everywhere. That's the way I read it anyway.
Yeah, I mean, as the scripture says, there will come a time when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. That's the point where light is now shown and everybody sees it for what it is.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, is it going to take you by surprise?
Right.
Are you going to be terrified of that day or excited beyond belief?
Yeah, I'm already excited. Let's go. Let's do this.
Yeah.
Well, here's a little bonus material here. This is all new stuff just popped in my head just now.
Ooh, I love it.
Bonus material.
Bonus material.
Pay extra for this.
The verse says, no coarse, joking. But that's not to mean we have no sense of humor. Anybody know any good jokes?
I was wondering if that's where you were going with that. Ironically, I do know one, but I feel like it might be, it might be kind of coarse.
Well.
I've already told this joke.
Oh, well, I'm sure.
How come you can't hear a psychologist going to the bathroom?
The p is silent.
Oh, coarse.
Is it coarse? Maybe we should define "coarse." I do feel a sense of conviction. There was a time in my life where I was pretty big on the coarse.
Dark. That's dark.
Dark. Yeah, I've come a long way.
Any other jokes?
Here's one for your kids. What do you call, what is the last thing that goes through a bee's mind when he hits the windshield?
Oh, I don't know.
His butt.
Oh, wow.
I really like that.
It doesn't matter how old you get, there's nothing funnier than a butt.
Oh, they're gonna love that.
Oh, my gosh.
Is that light enough for you?
The brevity?
It's pretty dark.
Still dark.
Still dark.
All right, here you go. I only know 25 letters of the alphabet. I don't know why.
Well, closing thoughts on this topic of light, Dr. Jon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Keep it light.
Keep it light. So I think it just goes back to also how darkness is something to be overcome, and it has already been overcome, but how tempting the light—how tempting the darkness can be. And there was a speaker at church today, Randy Clark? Yeah. And he said something that was kind of interesting, it kind of plays into it, and I think it speaks to the deceptiveness of darkness, that Satan will try to get at us three different ways. One, he'll either say that we are too bad for forgiveness or we're too good to need forgiveness, or he'll convince us that we can wait another day before receiving forgiveness. And so when it comes to the deceptiveness of darkness, I think that's something just to keep in mind, too, is it feels good to stay in the darkness to a certain level. But again, it's a toxic relationship. And so don't put off until tomorrow. If you're getting nudged, if you're getting a feeling of "I need to respond to the light," don't fall into that third category of, "I'll just wait until tomorrow." Do it today.
That's good.
Yeah.
My wrap up thought is going to stay with my theme of the light in us. The scientists just discovered that when an egg is fertilized, there's a spark of light that comes from it. And scientists will tell you it's from a zinc reaction. But really, that's the light of God, right. Being put into that person, that spirit, being put into that person, the light that they, they are. So while we are born in darkness, we are the build, you know, made in his image and to have that light right from the get-go, right from that moment in us.
Yeah.
When, when talking about the light, there was a scripture that you quoted in Galatians, and it talks about being, becoming part of the inheritance of God and how being someone in the light can often sound by non-believers as a way to lord it over them or as a way to try to gain some kind of power and control over other people. Sometimes people hear it that way. Like, who are you to say you're a child of the light and say that I'm in darkness? Not that we go around saying, you're in darkness, you're in darkness. I know some Christians do. But the truth is we're all in darkness. And the point isn't to gain some kind of one-up over other people. It's just God's truth. You know, if God is the light and the world, you know, didn't recognize him and rejected him, didn't know him, then, of course, when we try to be part of the light and share the light, we can expect to find some resistance there.
Yeah. I think I once heard a pastor say, I don't know who it was, but that the light versus dark, you know, like, if you're in a dark room, you don't walk in, turn on the light switch, and like, the light and the dark have this eternal battle like light, just—once the light is there, the darkness is gone. And that is what I keep kind of circling back to with this topic, is that yes, there is, like we are in a spiritual warfare, which we could talk probably forever about that. However, the light does always win, and there is victory in that. And so that's just where I'm landing right now in that thought.
Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Darkness is not equal with the light. Some might define it as the absence of light, but light is not defined as the absence of darkness. I don't think those definitions go—are reversible, I suppose. So, anyway. Well, excellent, great discussion. Thanks for joining us for this episode of The Defined Podcast, and we will see you next time.
Take care.
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