Episode Transcript
Well, welcome to another episode of The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al., a Bible study in which panelists draw from their experiences in coaching, education, management, ministry, psychology and other backgrounds in order to seek hope and timeless biblical truths amidst the challenges and uncertainties of today's austere times. Once again joined with Mandy and Rogelio and Robyn. Of course, Dr. Jon and myself, your host—I'm Chris—today. Welcome, everybody.
Thank you.
Today's a little different. We've got not an introductory vlog for this episode, but we will still dive in and look at the book of John in chapter 1.
A few opening comments here, and then I'll turn it to the panelists here to share our insights and ideas on the verses here, looking in the book of John, chapter 1, reading out of the ESV, picking up in verse 12.
"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
And this is speaking of Jesus, who we talked about in the last episode, is the light in this world here.
Anyway, looking more closely at that verse there, in verse twelve, he gave the right to become children of God. And just talking about the word "right," it's interesting in the Strong's Concordance has that word "exousia," and I'm going to try to dabble into the Greek here a little bit and figure out what the meaning here is.
That word defined as "power to act or authority." And so, God gives us the right, the power to act, the authority. Thayer's Greek Lexicon also says, "power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases; leave or permission," and then also "physical and mental power; the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises." So, it's interesting that it says, if we believe in Jesus, God gives us power, but for what? Well, it's the power to become children. The power to become children of God.
Normally we would think of power as like, you know, for example, law enforcement is given the authority to pull over a vehicle and impound the vehicle and take the DUI driver off to off in handcuffs, or perhaps a construction site might have a safety compliance officer. This person has the authority to shut down all the bulldozers and the cranes and the concrete pouring and everything like that. We usually think of that as, as authority, positions of power. But this is the authority to become children of God.
Children in the concordance, in Strong's Concordance, a child also defined as metaphorically one who is "of anything 'who depends on it, is possessed by a desire or affection for it, is addicted to it; or who is liable to any fate.'" Children like a dependent, completely dependent on God. And so, I think of, you know, that song, the Carrie Underwood song "Jesus, Take the Wheel."
Classic.
And it's a good song.
Never heard of it.
Never heard of it. Well, let me just.
I'm just kidding. Don't do it.
I'll do a quick recap.
For that one listener who hasn't heard that song.
Exactly. A metaphor of driving a car, a metaphor for life. And Jesus, take the wheel, physically take the car before it spins out and crashes, but also take control of life and guide the direction of the life. So that's like, that image of a dependent is like Jesus take over steering the direction here.
And just how dependent? Well, I think that when Jesus takes the wheel, a lot of people think that they move over to shotgun in the passenger seat, but no, I think that means no, you become the baby in the backseat when Jesus takes the wheel, you're along for the ride. You are dependent on the outcome of wherever he's going to take you. Anyway, opening thoughts on just how to interpret that verse there. To all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the authority, the liberty to choose to become dependent on God. So, opening thoughts there on that verse. I'll turn it over to the panel here to add your own insights to that verse.
Well, like. Yeah, like you were saying about we don't slide over to the passenger seat. It's like, we're in the back seat in, like, the car seat, there's that bumper sticker that says, "Jesus is my co-pilot." And that always kind of bugged me a little bit. Like, I get it. It's a nice sentiment, but it's like, no, it's like, we're not the ones that are still in control or should be in control of everything that we do. And so, I do think that's an interesting, that's a good point there.
I also kind of think that, like, you know, how, like, growing up, if, like, the family situation is not ideal or if it's even, like, toxic or it's a bad family situation, and then we use the phrase, "our friends are the family that we choose." It's, to me it kind of sounds a little bit similar to that, where we have the choice to partner with God and to allow him to take complete control. And it's a privilege to be able to do that. And it is a choice, though. But I think that's interesting how it is the power of choice to do that. It's up to us whether or not we want or we are willing to accept God to be the one that directs our lives.
But add to that, there's such a responsibility inherent in being, having that right to become the children of God, and it's not to be taken lightly. There's so much to being a child of God and so much of the authority that you take on that you can use in your daily life to be like Jesus, to be the hands and feet of Jesus, to be the salt of earth and the light of the world. I mean, there's so much more to it than what you get. You also get to give out of that just a lot of need and hope that the world needs that we can bring to it. And as a child of God, that we can present that.
I love the concept of power because we tend to think of power as something grandiose when really, like, the power to be charitable or the power to do good, the power to choose, humility and relying, relying on, on, on him who, relying on he who made us.
Right.
Just, it's interesting to me, like, what power really means.
Yeah.
Even Jesus, power to saying, like, I have the power to lay down my life and take it back up again.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. It's given that the power to, like, relinquish control, I guess, and not have to be the one in charge all the time, so. And then conversely, if you're not, like, receiving Jesus, if you haven't received, you don't necessarily have the power to do that. Like, you might try and do that, but, like, you're—it's this, like, constant struggle for power and control in your own life, I guess. And so, it's a beautiful thing to be given the power, like, the authority to lay that down versus having to be the one in control all the time. It's a, it's cool that it is called a right to do that, and we are granted that right because of the grace of God, which is an awesome privilege to have.
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's like the inverse of that would be, like, those who don't believe in Jesus, they don't have the option to choose to rely on God. So, what are they left with? They're left with the option to rely on themselves or on something else. And I would think that a good deal of perhaps therapy is spent on coping with the idea of certain things that were depended upon, that actually failed.
Like, why didn't this work out? And why didn't that work out? And just, I put my trust in this and it fell through.
Right. Yeah.
Perhaps you can comment on that.
Well, yeah, I talk to a lot of my clients when we get to a point where they come to see me and like, yes, what I've been doing isn't working anymore. And we talk about, like, what have you been doing to cope with the difficult life circumstances? And, you know, whether it is drugs, whether it is sex, whether it is something that is that momentary, like, feel-good thing that helps to kind of shut the negative off for a second.
It's a coping mechanism that no longer works and maybe not even, like, that extreme to those coping mechanisms. But the discussion is, like, your coping mechanism, you've grown out of it. Like, it might have helped you survive. Like, thank goodness you're here today, and whatever you did to get to this point, okay, hey, you're here. And now we've outgrown these old coping mechanisms, and we need to have one or a few or many that are just more reliable, more healthy. And again, when it comes to the coping mechanisms of life, it's like, if you don't have Christ, I tell my clients, too, I say, look, you know, psychological tools and skills, they're great. I can teach you a lot. But if we don't bring Jesus into the conversation, we're fighting with both hands tied behind our backs. I can only take you so far.
Yeah.
I wonder also to what degree for those who have put their trust in Jesus, and yet perhaps God is asking them to go a particular direction. To what degree does the radical acceptance of that come into play to actually bring peace to them? You know, it's like God wants—God is in control. However, perhaps they're feeling anxiety or depression regarding having to give up certain things or just, you know, straddling both sides can be exhausting, I would think.
Any comments on that concept there? Do they need to just kind of let go as the song says?
The same song you were talking about before?
The same song. The same song that if you haven't heard it before.
Yeah.
Let's take a pause break so you can go listen to that.
Maybe instead of the talking head for this episode.
Maybe so, we'll open with a music video next time.
I think that kind of ties in with, like, I mean, we're calling it is the right to become children of God. And if you don't understand God's character, it doesn't really sound like a right. Like, it doesn't sound like it's a privilege to have an all-controlling, all-knowing God, like, take care of you in your life if you don't understand his true nature. And so, I think that as time unfolds and as you get to know a good and gracious God who is all-powerful and all-knowing and who is all-capable and all of those things, it becomes more and more of a building of trust with that God, and it becomes—I don't want to say it's easy, and I don't even want to say it's like a one time "I'm letting go of everything," and God has it, and just suddenly, you're trusting God and you're not depressed and less anxious. It is like a—it's a—it's a growth of relationship with a trustworthy God, and it changes you just like any other relationship would. And so, when you have those people who, like, come into your office and they struggle with those things, it can be a long process and a necessary and good process before you get to know and really, truly become, like, over time, become a child of God, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it's like, kind of like I read about that Thayer's Greek Lexicon, the definition of how a child is liable to any fate and not fate in the sense of, like, something spooky or—outcome is—fate meaning outcome. So, the child in that car is liable to any outcome that may be present. You know, the child is typically along for the ride, you know, and reaching that point to where, to where one would say about their life, whatever outcome is to be, now that I'm trusting God, that's the outcome that I'm gonna be okay with, so.
Yeah.
There is a lot of trust there. And I think of actual child, you know, getting in the car with mom and dad, they don't really think about the destination. You know, they're just there for mom and dad, and wherever mom and dad are, they want to be. And I think that there's so much of a relief when you're able to get to that place where you're able to truly give over that right. You know, have that right, and give Jesus the wheel and sit in the backseat and just, I'm here. Wherever we're gonna go, I'm here. There's so much relief in that, and there's so much joy in that, so much contentment and all the things that God promises us in that, to be able to just sit back and say, not my will, but yours be done, let's go where you're gonna take me and just let go of all this stuff and give it to you and trust you that you're gonna take me places so much better than I could have taken myself.
Yeah.
I mean, it's so comforting. Man makes his plans, but God directs his steps. I mean, that is—it's massively freeing in the sense where it's like, yeah, I'll make my plans. Plans are good to make, but we don't have to worry about, like, am I going to get to my destination on my own? It's like, no, he's, he's directing our steps, and so that's, that can bring a lot of peace, for sure.
And it's interesting what you were saying, Jon, actually, sorry, Chris. You were talking about the anxiety. Like, can you, can you release it over to God and everything? And it's still hard because you can still—just thinking of my own pain or my own wounds. I can surrender. Right? Like, I do surrender to the process that God has. And at the same time, it's kind of like that little kid in the backseat where, like, they can trust the parent, but they might still be having a bad time. They might still cry.
You know, a kid can end up in a kind of, like, a hurt kind of space. And so, I think even if I trust God and I, and I do surrender the process, I can still go through, like, growing pains and anxiety isn't as easy as just kind of hanging it up on the shelf or something. Right?
Yeah, no, and it's. And to say that, yeah, it's not like when you become a Christian, you don't experience anxiety or depression or anything like that again. I use the tools that I teach in therapy for myself because I still have moments where I'm like, okay, this is different. Like, I'm super stressed about this, or this has hit me in a way that I wasn't expecting this situation to. So, yeah, so still, it's like, yeah, it doesn't just everything goes away when you become, when you follow Christ.
Yeah. And, you know, on the flip side of that, I know as a psychotherapist, like, I know I'll sit with people's pain a lot, but also, when I've sought help in the past, I remember sometimes when you share pain with other people or other therapists, sometimes the message can kind of seem like, well, if you just think the right things, if you just believe the right things, then you wouldn't need to be sharing this pain with me.
But that also brings me back to the relationship of Jesus, where it's like there's a sharing there. It's not just. He doesn't just say, well, son, get your thoughts straight. Figure it out. You know, it's like, no, like being with someone and hearing that, hearing them and responding. I think we all need to be related to, in a way.
Yeah.
I think it's important to define what that looks like in relationship with God. And what does that really mean for people who don't know? I mean, it's, you know, in relationship with anybody, you spend time with them, with God. You're reading his word. You're spending time in prayer. You're spending time just listening to what God has to speak to you. You're spending time with other believers. There's so many ways to really build your relationship with God. And so many studies have shown that if you're willing to read your scripture just four times a week for a couple minutes a day, it really helps with anxiety and stress and fear and all those things in our lives.
It's a huge tool, prayer, all those things. And it builds that relationship with God and simultaneously and works on those things in us that are keeping us from him and keeping us from letting go and letting him really take the wheel in our lives.
Yeah.
Yeah, a child doesn't typically express anxiety when the child is around a good, healthy parent.
Being separated from the parent could cause the anxiety, I suppose the child would feel most at peace, ultimately being obedient, I would think, and learning how to trust the parent's judgment.
Well, it's interesting when babies, when they're in an unfamiliar situation, they'll look to their mothers to see the facial expression on the mom like, is this okay? Is this not okay? And if the mom smiles and gives a pleasant response, and the baby's like, "okay, I'm good." If the mother tenses up and the baby's like, "okay, this isn't good" at a very young age.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of interesting, too, if I could just—
Get in there.
There goes all the oxygen out of the room.
So, it's kind of interesting how the Bible says that we're born into sin, and so that's like what we're born into. And then God is like, but I can adopt you as my son. It's like you're born into sin—a child of sin I suppose you could even say—but I'm offering you the chance to be a child of God. And that is. I mean, that's such an amazing thing that he allows us to be able to choose is to choose to become a child of God when we're born into sin.
Yeah.
It alters the destiny of where you're headed, what trajectory you're going, where you're traveling to, where you're, where you're headed in life.
It really is such a powerful thought that I can be born into something like, that's what I know, that's what I was made into. Like, that is more or less the trajectory of my life. But then there was this God who, like, steps in, and I have the power to choose something different. Like, you really do not have to, you don't have to continue in the same direction just because it was what you started out with. I mean, that—I just—sometimes I think that we take that for granted, like, especially knowing the Lord for so long now. It's like it really would have been an entirely different life for me had God not stepped in. You know?
We have the people who have everything, right? Or seem to have everything. What the world would say is everything, and they really have nothing. Reminds me of a gentleman who was a millionaire who was saying, he is so depressed in life. I think I've talked about him before that he just, didn't know who he could trust because everyone wanted his money and how it's sad to live without Jesus, really. It's what I think. And when I see people that don't have the Lord and are looking to other things, they're trying to do it on their own. You try and you fight so hard to try to do it on your own when it's not necessary.
Yeah.
Yeah, to become dependent on God, that could involve giving up perhaps a job that pays $500,000 a year or $100,000 a year or $50,000 a year or $30,000, $20,000 a year. It might be different for various people, but the dependence on God, you know, it's not like there's a particular amount that it's one size fits all.
Right.
Like, whatever God is speaking in your unique relationship with him, that dependence could involve giving up any one of those numbers.
Right. Yeah.
In reliance on him or a reduction. And it's like, God, I'm going to be dependent, ultimately, on God.
Yeah. The money's relative, but, like, I mean, it's very specific in the Bible. The rich young ruler, the last thing he had to do was, okay, hey, just give up everything. Give up your money and follow me. And it's like, nope, can't do that. And it's like, well, that's like, well, that's a shame.
It's like, wow. It's like you worked so hard doing, following all of these rules, and you stuck to the t with everything. And then the last thing, you didn't have to do anything else. You just had to give up something.
Right.
You did it all just now, just let go.
And to become childlike, in that sense, dependent on God, that's where it's like Romans 14:17 says, "For the kingdom of God," and this is what the rich young ruler needed to—it's difficult to come into the kingdom, it's difficult for the rich to come into the kingdom for this reason, is the dependence, the issue of the heart, I believe, is the proper interpretation of that. But anyway, Romans 14:17, "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." The kingdom, those things, righteousness, peace and joy. Those things come, I believe, with a childlike attitude. That's what those who are dependent on themselves, that's what they miss out on. They miss out on the peace—the righteousness, peace and the joy, right? Because of trying to be self-reliant or reliant on things that will not ultimately fulfill.
Right.
Which is kind of ironic, because isn't that what we're all wanting, like, truly—righteousness, peace and joy in our lives? But we're, like, seeking those things in order to obtain the righteousness, peace and joy. I mean, even if we're not, we're, like, cognitively thinking that, but, like, there's a certain amount, like a fulfillment that we're all looking for, and so we're looking to certain things that we can grasp in order to get those where if we were to be obedient to the Lord and give certain things up, he would just freely give them to us.
Right.
Not like an if and, like, he's not like, I'm withholding this until you do this. But it kind of is, like, there is a certain kind of freedom and peace and joy that comes with that surrender to the Lord, which is just kind of ironic that we cling so tightly to certain things, not realizing that we're just kind of missing it ourselves.
Right. Yeah.
It really strikes me how letting go of something in the hands of the Lord, like, we don't really, like, we never really get the message from Jesus that we need to, like, sort of, like, obtain or, like, cling to something or attain something, it's usually kind of like trusting. Like, I mean, even Jesus letting go of his own life in the hands of the father. Like, it's usually about surrendering something versus, like, grabbing something.
And so, I really get that sense that relying, as we were talking about, involves a lot of release, but we can't just really release something into thin air. Like, it doesn't really even make sense in a lot of ways. It's like releasing it to the hands of the Father. That makes all the difference.
Yeah. It's not the same as just ignoring resources or just pretending they don't exist. It's actually, you give it to God. It's not throwing it in the garbage.
Right. Or into the wind.
You lay it on an altar as a sacrifice, in a sense.
No, that's a good point.
That's good. And when scripture says, don't worry about, what you're going to wear, don't worry about, you know, what are you going to eat. You know, the birds are fed and the lilies of the field are, you know, they're clothed. And it's like, as kids growing up, like, I don't know, I speak for myself. I don't remember a time where I worried about what I was going to eat. Like, "oh, man, I wonder what I'm going to have for breakfast today when I wake up in the morning?" I mean, there are some kids sure that in the world has that, but I just—from my own experience—it's like I didn't have to worry about what I was going to eat or what I was going to wear. And I think that that's part of what, what God is trying to get us to understand is this is what I want for you. I don't want you to wake up in the morning worrying about how your life is going to go. I don't want you to worry about what tomorrow's going to bring. We have to plan. We have to be diligent and mindful, and we have a part to play. But it's not like, oh, my gosh, I wonder if the world's going to crash down around me today and there's no hope for me moving forward.
Yeah, well, closing thoughts as we wrap up this episode of The Defined Podcast.
My closing thought would be that I think that we live in a world where right is being defined as whatever you feel like in the moment. And it's so ambiguous, right? As long as you fit in with this box that they're pushing, it's fascinating that they're really taking you away from scripture and away from really focusing on God and letting him run your life and instead trying to find right for yourself and whatever that means. And it can mean, one thing today and another thing tomorrow and another thing Wednesday, you know, it's so scattered, and so it creates so much fear. And that's where you see this anxiety that's coming out in society and the fear that we see in the people that are just so confused because we have just decided that we're gonna make right whatever it is you want it to be today. I'm really grateful just to have the word, to go back to and be able to say, no, this is my foundation, and this is where my truth comes from, my understanding. And it's a firm foundation for a reason, because it does ground you and keep you safe.
You know, I think that's a really good point, Mandy. I actually, I really believe in, like, continuously, kind of, like, training my mind to, like, hear truth. And I think we all need, like, truth spoken to us through the word and learning to hear truth, which does go hand-in-hand with believing the right things and thinking good thoughts. At the same time, I was also emphasizing earlier about relationship. Regardless of what feelings come up in trusting God, that's okay, too. You know, things come up, but all of those things are important.
I didn't want to make something up. I'm literally just sitting here thinking just how grateful I am that the Lord has given us this right to be children of God. Especially as a woman who's grown up most of her life without a father in kind of an interesting childhood situation, I really have been adopted into a family of God, and I'm just so grateful for the community he's given me. And, I mean, this incredible life that I have, and there is a sense of peace that I didn't have as a child. There is a sense of safety. There's a sense of just, I'm just very, very grateful. So that's kind of just what's going on in my head right now as we discuss this topic is that, like, I truly am one of those that have benefited so much from the body of Christ and from a relationship with Jesus. So that's why I don't want to, like, make something up, but it's just very personal to me right now. So, yeah.
That's wonderful.
That's all.
Yeah. I guess my little closing thought would be that children really thrive with boundaries. They thrive with rules. They thrive with structure. And so, we as children of God, we thrive with his instruction, his rules, his boundaries. And so. And that's really what he's calling us to as well, is I will give you a set of rules and principles and guidelines that will help you to live in this world that is not what I intended in this. Trust me, listen to my voice and we will get through this together.
Yeah. It's interesting how sometimes—it's interesting how in the Bible, God has certain analogies, you know, like the family, the being a child of God, that type of relationship—is to help us understand God's purpose for us and his goal. And it's interesting to see those analogy institutions come under attack, I think, by the enemy, you know, so that as we read the scripture, then we can think about modern society and think like, oh, that's what a family is, or that's what a marriage is, or that's what. And then we would think like, well, why would that analogy be something that we would want to be associated with? And so anyway, what I'm saying is it's important to know what the original intent of those institutions are and to know what they look like in a godly structure. And that way we can have a good understanding of what it is God is trying to communicate to us about those types of relationships so that we can understand what his will is for us to be in relationship with him. So anyway, well, great discussion. Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. We look forward to bringing another episode to you soon. Thank you.
Take care, everybody.
Thank you for listening to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. If you enjoyed what you heard, we invite you to, like, share, subscribe, and give a five-star rating. Find us online at TheDefinedPodcast.com. Scripture quotations are from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
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