Episode Transcript
I remember the first time I got to fly first class. The upgrade was unexpected, and so was the feeling. I felt liberated. Like Andy Dufresne at the end of Shawshank Redemption. Arms spread wide, I was freed from my sentence, my prison cell with narrow armrests. Up to that point, I had only seen first class in passing. And by passing, I mean that slow, humiliating chain gang walk through first class, back to coach. You always hope that, like the flight itself, the trip to your seat will be non-stop. It never is. There's always that one gang member who can't find a spot for a sledgehammer in the overhead compartment. Brings the whole line to a halt. And then you're just standing there. You might as well be locked in a pillory above town square. You look up from your shackled feet, make eye contact with a woman in seat B-2. She's obviously someone important. Her sunglasses are too big, and her dog is too small. Telltale signs of socio-economic superiority. And just as you're about to attempt an ill-advised icebreaker, the sledgehammer slides into place, the chain pulls tight, and the shuffling continues. But that was the past. Snatched from obscurity, I was now elevated to a place of prominence, like Prince Wesling or King Ralph. The committee had convened and the decision was made. I was a free man. But was I really ready for life on the outside? For starters, I didn't look the part. No oversized sunglasses. No undersized pets. Just a hoodie and my Santa Cruz trucker hat. The cargo pants probably didn't help. Second, and more importantly, I didn't feel the part. The airlines, they avoid the term "second class," but on any given plane there are really only two sections, and one of them is clearly labeled "first." Instead, they try to sugarcoat it by calling it something high-end like "coach." Flying "Gucci" didn't pass the focus group, but we know a knockoff when we see it. My thoughts, they started to betray me. "Who am I kidding? I'm second class on a good day. Most of the time, I'd barely qualify for the cargo hold. I don't belong up in first class. I belong back in Gucci." Before I knew it, I began scheming on how I might break parole just to get sent back. Maybe a derogatory remark about the pilot's mother or something disparaging about handbag dogs. As Red from Shawshank put it, all I want is to be back where things make sense. Where I don't have to be afraid all the time. And that place for me was coach. Back there, I knew the routine, the expectation, the flow. I mean, do you even need permission to use the bathroom in first class like you do in coach? Who knows? Not that I'd be able to go without say so anyway.
But before I could act, a voice sounded over the PA system, "Now boarding first class on flight 232, traveling nonstop to Las Vegas."
The flight number and my ticket, they matched. I was almost disappointed. I looked at my ticket again and thought, just for a moment, maybe it won't be so bad. I mean, the number does match, name's on it and everything.
I thought it over a bit more as I watched a few first class regulars enter the jet bridge. I took a deep breath and stood. Shoulders back a little, I walked toward the gate.
My confidence grew with each step. Of course, the jury was still out on whether I'd need verbal permission to avoid a case of mile high bladder paralysis. But things were looking up.
As I approached the customer service agent. I felt a little silly, but no longer because of my preconceived inadequacy. I felt silly because I let such a thought grow in the first place.
With my confidence now all but restored, I handed the woman my boarding pass.
"Oh, I'm sorry," she said politely with a matching smile, "I said we're boarding first class."
"What?"
"I said we're boarding first class. We'll be seating coach momentarily." She barely even looked at my ticket. She just stood there like I tried to board with a Snickers wrapper. I double-checked my boarding pass just to make sure—she was so confident in her response—maybe she knew something I didn't. After careful inspection, though, I determined it wasn't a Snickers wrapper.
Yeah, I have a first class ticket, name's on it and everything. The agent's demeanor quickly changed. It went from "please get lost" to "don't tell my boss" in a matter of seconds.
"Oh, I do apologize. Yes, of course," she said. "Let me scan that for you. Again, I'm so sorry for the mistake."
I assured her everything was fine.
My bladder, on the other hand, it would take more convincing.
Brooklyn philosopher Jay-Z once said, "Identity is a prison you can never escape." If identity is the fact of being who or what a person or thing is, then I suppose he's right. There's no escape, not even with the help of Rita Hayworth and a rock hammer. But is it fair to compare identity with a prison sentence? It can be. The American Psychological association defines identity as "an individual sense of self defined by a) a set of physical, psychological, and interpersonal characteristics that is not wholly shared by any other person, and b) a range of affiliations such as ethnicity and social roles. Identity involves a sense of continuity, or the feeling that one is the same person today, that one was yesterday or last year, despite physical or other changes. Such a sense is derived from one's body sensations, one's body image, and the feeling that one's memories, goals, values, expectations, and the beliefs belong to the self, also called personal identity." Which is fine except for that sense of self part there at the beginning. Because sense of self, also according to the APA, is an individual's feeling of identity, uniqueness, and self-direction. So how we feel is the measure by which we determine who we are? This doesn't seem wise, particularly because feelings aren't facts.
Psychotherapist, author, and internationally syndicated columnist Dr. Barton Goldsmith writes, "feelings aren't facts." See? Not making this stuff up. Goldsmith goes on to say, there's no end to the amount of feeling, both positive and negative, that flows through our lives on a daily basis.
The trick is to learn how to differentiate between feelings that are born out of our imagination and those that are real and verifiable. And so, it is with identity we must discern between fact and fiction. If there's no end to the amount of feeling that flows through our lives on a daily basis, then our identity needs grounding, especially given our propensity to give and receive labels.
Pure Matter CEO and best-selling author Brian Kramer writes, we label others all the time. It helps us to compartmentalize situations and behaviors. However, Kramer adds, labels end up conveying something absolute that's difficult to navigate away from once it's decided. So, let's be sure that when we come to such labels, particularly those spoken over us, we consider the source, something we find in using the Socratic method.
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines Socratic method as, a series of questionings, the object of which is to elicit a clear and consistent expression of something supposed to be implicitly known. I like to focus on one particular Socratic question, that is, did someone pass this thought or belief to me? And if so, are they a reliable source? Because questioning the source is not only a useful therapeutic tool, but it's arguably the oldest. In Genesis 3:11, after the fruit but before the finger pointing, God asked Adam, "Who told you that you were naked?" A question to which Adam did not have an answer. Now, I don't think God asked the question because he didn't know the answer. I think he asked because he wanted Adam to consider the source. It's like God was saying, you were doing fine earlier. What happened between then and now? And who told you this? Who told you that you have something to hide. As if trying to remind Adam of truth in the midst of lies by asking, who are you? About 4,000 years later, John the Baptist was asked the same "who" question. But unlike Adam, John had a response. He not only knew who he was, as the prophet Isaiah said, "the voice of one crying out in the wilderness," but he also knew who he wasn't. He wasn't Christ, he wasn't Elijah the prophet. And knowing makes all the difference. Because whereas the devil's "who are you?" is a subtle accusation rooted in lies, God's "who are you?" is a gentle reminder rooted in truth. It's the difference between "who do you think you are" and "who do you know you are." In a world full of hurtful words, mixed messages and lies, I believe God continues to lovingly ask us similar questions today. Questions like, who told you that you're worthless? Who told you that you won't amount to anything? Who told you that you'll never get married? Who told you that you're not good enough, smart enough, attractive enough? Who are you?
And not because he doesn't know. Rather, he asks because he wants us to see the label for what it is, a lie. He's pointing out that the source of that message is no longer reliable. And he invites us to adopt an identity of truth, an identity of who we truly are. Because where there's truth, there is freedom. And freedom is a wonderful thing. But perhaps Red said it best after he himself embraced a new identity as a free man.
I find myself so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel. A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.
The same excitement and joy are ours for the taking.
So, the next time someone puts a label on you, consider the source. The next time someone says you're something you're not, separate fact from feeling. And the next time someone calls you coach, be sure to show them your first class ticket.
We should get started.
Let's get started. Welcome to another episode of The Defined Podcast w/Dr. Jon et al.
And I lost my little write up.
Ah, it was such a good write up.
Dang it.
It was a really—I was wondering if you made that up on the spot or not.
It wasn't on the spot.
Did you have some AI help there?
Heck no. Please.
Me sitting on the couch.
"Couch." "Toilet."
Okay, I better say it again.
A Bible study in which panelists draw from their experiences in coaching, education, management, ministry, psychology and other backgrounds in order to seek hope and timeless biblical truths amidst the challenges and uncertainties of today's austere times.
I'm Chris, your host, Dr. Jon is with us once again. Our other panelists include Mandy, Rogelio and Robyn, once again. Welcome, everybody.
Thank you.
Aloha.
Today we are looking closely at the word "who" in the passage of scripture John chapter 1 and we're going to look at verses 19 through 27 in the ESV.
"And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, 'Who are you?' He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, 'I am not the Christ.' And they asked him, 'What then? Are you Elijah?' He said, 'I am not.' 'Are you the Prophet?' And he answered, 'No.' So they said to him, 'Who are you? We need to give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?' He said, 'I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.'
(Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.) They asked him, 'Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?' John answered them, 'I baptize with water, but among you stands one you do not know, even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.'”
And we just heard in the vlog your comments, Dr. Jon, about who one is and identity. And anyway, top line thoughts about the blog going around the table.
Yeah, I know that a large part of the vlog had to do with identity and labeling. And so, I just kind of starting off my first kind of top line thoughts about labels. I, there was an actress, and I can't remember what her name, who she is, but I remember her saying something along the lines of—had to do with language and not understanding—like, if it's a foreign language, someone that's speaking a different language than yourself. But essentially, she said, you're not offended if you're insulted in a language that you don't understand.
And so, if—that's so true, like, somebody can come up to me and just start insulting me, in a language that I don't understand. And, and it's like, I'm, that's not gonna, that's not gonna hit me. That's not going to do anything emotionally to me because I don't even know what they're talking about. And so, I think when it comes to labels, I think that that's something we just need to keep in mind is what somebody tells us, somebody that tries to put something on us—we need to, we need to be—it needs to be as if they're speaking a foreign language if it's not truth and if somebody's being rude, demeaning, bringing us down—basically saying something that is opposite of what Christ would say about us—then it has to be as if it's a foreign language. And so, we don't need to be offended if people are talking to us in a language that we don't understand.
That's great.
That's good.
I love this scripture, and I love that this man is so well known. He is sought after. People are looking to him for wisdom, for truth. People—he has quite a following. He's an influencer of his day, and instead of pointing to himself, he's pointing at who's to come. Instead of taking credit, he's pointing at Jesus. And I love that. I love that in our world today, "who" is such a huge term to define, right? And the world is trying to define in many different ways, but here's this guy saying, it doesn't matter about me. It matters only about him.
That's good.
Yeah, that's really good.
I think a lot about the definition of who we are, as described by one of my favorite life coaches, Tony Robbins, and he says, the most central part of identity is kind of knowing who you are and what you're here to do. And those two questions really give us an understanding of the meaning of life. Essentially, "Who am I?" "What am I here to do?" And without that, it's hard to feel centered on anything or grounded.
So, yeah, I love that as a starting point.
Yeah.
Good.
The first thing that kind of came to mind is just the thought, like, this concept of identity, and it actually just reminded me of my first encounter with the Lord. I was 15, and I had not grown up in church whatsoever and had no recollection. Like, I had no familiarity with the Bible whatsoever. But I'll keep it short. But, basically, I was at this retreat, and I had this experience where, for the first time in my life, I was hearing the voice of the Lord, and it was the Lord speaking identity over me. And I won't go into details of what that looks like because I wouldn't want someone else to draw conclusions about their own. But I just think it was very, like, looking back over the years, I think it's always been just very interesting to me that the first thing that I heard my father in heaven say is speaking identity over me. And it's always really resonated with me of the foundation that has laid for my life, for, you know, the rest of my life. So, yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah. It's amazing how God wants to speak identity into our lives. And a lot of that is shown in the Bible through a name. Sometimes before someone is born, he gives them their name. Like John the Baptist, before he was even born, he told his dad, Zechariah, you will name him John. And then even when the angel appeared to Mary, regarding Jesus, said, you will call him Jesus. But sometimes this happens later in life. For example, God told Abram, your name will now be Abraham. Sarai will now be Sarah. And there's one more example.
Jacob.
Jacob became Israel.
Yes. Yes. Jacob became—Jacob, wrestled with God or with the angel, and his name was changed to Israel. Yeah. And so, God will give that identity to somebody.
And it's not a nickname. It's not like, now you're—here's "sport" or here's—
"Slugger."
"Slugger." The movie, "Frequency." You're still my little chief, right?
That's a good movie.
Dennis Quaid—
That's a good movie
His character. And Jim Caviezel.
Oh, man.
That was a good movie.
Movie night!
It's not a nickname. It's not a nickname. It's a meaning. It's a destiny. It's an identity. It's conferring upon somebody. This is who you are, and this is what your life is intended to be. So, a lot involved in a name. So. And yes, even Jesus changed the disciple Simon's name to Peter. So basically, it's in Matthew 16 verses 13-20 out of the ESV.
"Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, 'Who do people say that the Son of Man is?' And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.' He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?' Simon Peter replied, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' And Jesus answered him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.' Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ."
It's interesting how first Simon identified who Jesus is, and then Jesus changed the identification of Simon to Peter.
First, Jesus said, who do you say I am? He correctly says the Christ. And then his name changes.
Right.
It's an interesting sequence of events there. I don't think it's by coincidence there.
Yeah, it is interesting that he identified who Jesus was first and then he said who he was and then his name was changed. And I think that kind of goes for all of us, where, what does God want to be doing in our lives? Is there a name change that he wants to make in our lives as well? And I think that's a question that we can maybe ask, you know, each of us can ask ourselves.
I think it's interesting that throughout scripture, culturally, names meant something and there was such importance behind what you named your child because that really defines who they would become. And you find names like Jabez and that didn't have a great meaning behind it. But, you know, God took his life and turned it around. And I think names are so important. And I love asking people, what's the meaning of your name? And it's interesting to me that most people don't know what their name means or the freedom that comes from knowing that or the foundation of that. And the other thought I had was that in, the Bible tells us that in eternity, God will give us each a name that only him and, you know. So, it's a name that will be just specific between the two of you and so beautiful and I'm sure has so much meaning pertaining to your life on earth and what he thinks about you and how much he loves you.
Yeah. I thought of the Greek philosopher Socrates and how he was one of the most prominent philosophers. And when people asked him, what can you kind of reduce all of philosophy down to?
And he was accredited with saying, know thyself.
And, you know, in the Bible, in the Holy Bible, really, the know thyself kind of starts with, right, like God's love for us. As, you know, the verse that's God loved us first. And so, our identity—depending on God and resting on, as you mentioned before, whose we are and how really us deriving our identity from his love then allows us to have like a stable and permanent identity. So I love that.
I was just wondering, based on like, oh. Guys, hear that raspy?
I didn't, no.
Based on what you guys, is it. Is it like possible then to really know yourself if you don't know the Lord?
Right. It's like Socrates—or as Bill and Ted would say, So Crates—you know, know yourself. But it kind of leaves us a little bit short.
Right.
It's like, okay, know myself. So, what does that even mean? How do I know myself? Yeah.
Especially. I feel like it's so easy to deceive yourself about pretty much anything, but especially about yourself.
Yeah.
We tend to think of ourselves as greater than we are or sometimes worse than we are.
Right.
Or sometimes not actually what we are, as the case may be, especially in 2024.
I just. I wonder how possible it is to really have any sense of identity without truly knowing the Lord, which might upset some people. But it's true.
Yeah. Well, yeah, it seems that once God confers an identity on someone, that is now their identity, that it's not going to, like, change from day to day or from, you know, week to week, or God feels this way about you now, this week, so now your name is this.
He knows the end from the beginning. So once he tells you who you are, he does that with your destiny in mind, which should give someone hope, knowing that, wow, this is who God says I am, and I need to get from here to there, and he knows how to take me from here to there, somehow. I don't know how I'm going to get there, but he knows the plan along the way on how to make me into that person. Like, Simon, he might not have felt like the rock in that moment, but somehow that destiny was put before him. With God's help, he will become this rock.
Perhaps is one way of looking at it.
Yeah, it's not like, on a whim or it's not like, by emotion. Like today, he's feeling this way. So, you're this, right? I think that we—and we are moving into more of a culture to where we are—our identity is more led by our emotions and our feelings, and so that concrete, solid what God says about us. And I do think it's interesting about Peter, where, I mean, I think The Chosen, kind of highlights this—the show, The Chosen—a little bit more. But I think even from text, that's where we kind of, where they would get that from, is like, Simon, is he really, like, the rock? Like that's the guy that Jesus is going to call the rock when he's probably the more emotional of the disciples.
Maybe some of the disciples thought of it more as, like, emotionally, like, unsteady at times. And so, I think that's just another indication of, like, God doesn't call us who we perhaps currently are, but where he knows—yeah, to your point—where he's taking us. And so, yeah, I think that's another really encouraging thing, that he'll usher us into where he wants us to go.
Mic drop.
Or even perhaps. Even perhaps intellectually unstable. You know, he might have not known everything that he needed to know, all the specifics or anything, but a work in progress, nonetheless.
I'm thinking of in Ruth when Naomi decides that she is, you know, she loses her husband and both of her sons, and she's left more or less destitute, and she decides that she's gonna go by "Mara," which means "bitter." And I, it almost makes me think, like, how often are we taking on identities, like, even intentionally, just based on our circumstances? Well, this happened, and so now I am this, and this is just the way it is now from here on out, even though that isn't what God or anyone else has spoken over us. It's just like what we're choosing now to identify with. Like, we have a choice in the matter as well.
Yeah.
Like those who say, "if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all."
That's right. Dang, that's—
That's Mara.
That's rough.
Mic drop? Maybe not?
Well, I hear that—it's funny to laugh at it when somebody says that—but I'm like, pal, chin-up pal.
Sport.
Sport.
Slugger.
Come on, little chief.
You're still my little chief, right?
No.
And then there's this idea of self-identity and even how Jesus didn't put a whole lot of stock in it.
In John 5:31, he says, "If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true."
And then he lists, well, there's others who have identified me. He says, John the Baptist, the works of Jesus, the Father himself, the scriptures, Moses wrote about me. He lists all these others who will confirm his identity.
So he knew it, but he wouldn't say that his own proclamation of who he is was sufficient to identify himself to everybody. He was perhaps humble enough to allow that confirmation to come from identities that have been bestowed upon him by his Father and others. So interesting thought there on self-identity and how that might be looked at also.
Right. I guess from a practical standpoint, it's like, you know how, like, good caretakers, good adults, they'll tell their children, like, don't, like, boast about yourself. Like, what good you've done. Like, "look at me," and then filling in the blank with, like, "I am so good, I'm so smart." And, like, the identity in that regard, from a biblical standpoint, gets to be you'll know them by their fruit.
And so, yeah, the self-identity is—that can get us into some trouble—because it's like you might be saying one thing, but everybody else around us are like, "no," like, "we don't, we don't see that in you."
Well, that's why we ask for references on an employment application. Like, who can you have to vouch for you?
Because no one, no one trusts. I don't believe you. Give me three people at least.
It's also biblical. Like, it does say that in Proverbs, I think, to, like, let another man praise you, not like, what comes from your own lips. I'm gonna butcher it, so, but that's pretty much what it says is—and I've never thought of it in that way in reference to identity so much as, like, don't be boastful. But it doesn't—that actually is a really good point, though, is that, I mean, how well can you know yourself without, like, a broader community? I've even heard Jordan Peterson talk about that, where, like, this whole idea right now that we can, like, self-diagnose or, like, self-identify as certain things just because we think so is the antithesis of what they would even say with the APA. Like, you can't just, like, our identity is not in a vacuum unto ourselves. It's how we relate and how we, and how other people perceive us to some degree, you know? So, this idea that we just exist unto ourselves is incorrect and also unhealthy.
Yeah, well, like, do thy own self be true. And it's like, what does that even mean exactly?
Yeah.
It's like. It's just, yeah.
It's like they'll know we are followers of Christ by our love. It's in, like, who we are is also relating to, and there's actually this whole idea right now, an identity that I've been hearing about from a doctor, Sue Johnson, who's a psychologist. And she talks about, like, who we are depends on us having a safe and secure connection, that we're created for love, like, to connect with others. And how talking about God's love and who we are, it's about being in that reciprocal place of love. To receive love, we need that. We need to give love. And that's who we are. We give and receive love. And I really love that image. And also, not to sound too wordy, there's just this funny kind of saying that this psychologist says that we shouldn't be called Homo Sapiens, because that's just, like, one who thinks or one who knows, but she says we should be called Homo Vinculum, which means, like, one who connects. And I'm just thinking about, like, the love of Christ in that way.
Another important question to ask is, who are we listening to about our identity? Cause the world will tell us a lot of things. I've been told many things that I would disagree with. Am I going to listen to what the world says, or am I going to listen to what the scripture says, what God says? Simon had every option to listen to Jesus and become the rock or to listen to the world. And who would say he's not good enough or he's too emotional, whatever that may be for him.
Yeah.
There are people in my life who think I'm just a super heavy sleeper, but the reality is that sometimes they would come over and I wouldn't want to talk to anybody. So I would just pretend to be very, very asleep.
Good to note.
In reality, absolutely everything wakes me up, like, a little light, like, you know, like the little light on, like, your tv or something or whatever is in your room. Like, everything wakes me up. But there are people who are convinced I'm a super heavy sleeper. Cause I just am, like, determined to not be bothered.
Is that bad?
Well, and people will make a like—to your point, Mandy, too—is like, people will make, give us labels and try to identify us as something, and they don't even need much to go off of. I mean, it was like my experience in the airport. All that I had was literally, like, this hat and a hoodie, and she was like, obviously, you're not in first class. Like, obviously, you're coach. And, like, I think that we just need to keep that in mind, too, is people may put labels on us, and they may have, like, hardly any information to go off of, but yet we might be susceptible to take that on, even though it's, like, it's just it's garbage, it's crap. Like, there's nothing there to actually connect that identity with us.
Right.
So, we have to be very careful about what we accept.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or project onto others.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
That's right, too.
Yeah.
Yep.
Good point.
Yeah. And so, what I'm hearing is we can't trust ourselves too much to identify ourselves, but we also can't trust other people too much to identify ourselves. So that leaves us with God.
God.
The Bible. Basic instructions before leaving earth.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
So, you can take your pick. Someone calls you something, you can say, "I've been called worse." It'd be like, "that's all you got?" Or say, "I've been called better."
I've been called better. I love that. Try again.
Well, any concluding thoughts as we wrap up this episode?
I do so in the vlog in particular, there was a lot of talk about labels and being careful not to accept labels that were not, and I thought it'd be kind of fun to go through just really briefly what some of the Bible says of who we are. And so, Ephesians 2:10, we're God's workmanship. Genesis 1:27 reads, so God created man, his own image. In the image of God, he created him. Male and female, he created them, so we are created in the image of God. 1 Peter 2:9, we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession. 1 John 3 says, we're children of God.
1 Corinthians 3:16, we're God's temple.
We got Romans 8:37, we're more than conquerors. Psalm 139, we're fearfully and wonderfully made. Philippians 3:20, we are citizens of heaven.
1 Corinthians 12, we are the body of Christ.
Romans 8:17, we're heirs of God. In Joshua 1:9, we're strong and courageous in him and through him. I mean, it's like there's, and that's just like, that was just a bit like there was more that I didn't even add to this. And so it's not just about who we aren't, but who we are that we need to be mindful of.
I would tag off that and say that anybody listening who's really questioning your identity, something practical to do would be go to Psalm 139 and read that daily, even give yourself a week goal. Read it every day for a week and really dig into what God says about you and your identity in him and who you are. It will change your life, it will change your perspective, and it will give you so much hope.
That's good.
Yeah. My last thought around this is, like, it's easy, especially for myself, just like, as a weak, broken human being, child of God, that it's easy for me to kind of focus on what I give up or what I lose in identity when talking about, like, well, "who do I belong to," right?
I belong to God. In a worldly way that almost sounds like, oh, man, it's gonna diminish, like, I don't know, just my own agency or whatever. Like, I'm gonna lose something. I can't just be me for me, but, really just like, all the things you just read off, Jon, of, like, everything that we have to gain.
Yeah.
And actually, that our true identity, right? Like, that even just being the best possible individual and having the most freedom actually goes together.
Yeah.
Like, God's love for me.
Right, right.
It's not like one takes away the other. It's like I'm more complete. I'm actually like a full person.
And we can come up with, like, what? I don't know, like, the average person, like, five, six, seven, like, things that we would say, like, this is my identity, right? The thing that might be tough to give up. And then God's like, check this out. Right? It's just like, hold my wine. And it's just, like, it just, like, goes on and on and on of all the different identities that he actually says, this is who you are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's kind of where I was landing with, like, a final thought, too, is especially with what you're saying, then the scriptures that you read is—on the off chance that we have people listening who aren't familiar with the word or don't yet have a relationship with the Lord, this idea that, like, your identity is found in God is not as—it's not, it's still very—you are an individual person, and God gives you individualized identities. Like, he created us so uniquely and in his image, yet at the same time, like, obviously we're all very different people with very different personalities and characteristics, strengths, weaknesses, and all of those things. And so, I think that it's hard sometimes to kind of visualize that. Like, I think that without the understanding of the Lord, you might visualize, like, that we're all kind of these, like, militant looking—we're in the same uniform, standing next to each other in a line—and, like, we are stripped of identity in a way, because there's a lack of imagination, especially compared to the imagination of the Lord when he creates people. Like, we don't have the same kind of imagination. But if you think, like, the endless possibilities that God has come up with in creating each of us so uniquely, it's a very exciting thing, and it's a very cool thing to get to know people and to get to know how God has made people, especially as they start to flourish in who he's made them to be because we get to see his creativity at work.
Yeah. And it's like when he says that he knit us in our mother's wombs, and then you look and you see there's no two snowflakes that are alike. It's like. And he loves us so much more than a snowflake.
Yeah.
Right. It's like, yeah. So, the individuality is definitely, it's baked in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He enhances our identity as opposed to taking away from.
There you go. Yeah.
Excellent. Great discussion. Glad we could all come together once again to talk about these very important topics that we're gleaning from the book of John. So, thank you everybody. Once again, thank you for joining us, and we look forward to another episode before long. Thank you.
Take care, everybody.
Thank you for listening to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. If you enjoyed what you heard, we invite you to, like, share, subscribe, and give a five-star rating. Find us online at TheDefinedPodcast.com. Scripture quotations are from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
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