S1 E10 | "See" | Bible Study John 1:46-51

Welcome to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al., a Bible study in which panelists from a variety of backgrounds, including coaching, education, management, ministry, and psychology, seek hope and truth in what some would call austere times. I'm your host, Chris once again. Of course, Dr. Jon is in the studio along with Robyn Nelson and Christina Konrad. Welcome back, everybody. Thank you. Today we are discussing the word "see" from the book of John and our passage of scripture we're looking at more closely today is John chapter 1, beginning in verse 46. "Nathanael said to him, 'Can anything good come out of Nazareth?' Philip said to him, 'Come and see.' Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, 'Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!' Nathanael said to him, 'How do you know me?' Jesus answered him, 'Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.' Nathanael answered him, 'Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!' Jesus answered him, 'Because I said to you, "I saw you under the fig tree," do you believe? You will see greater things than these.' And he said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.'” And that was out of the ESV. So, a few observations there. Phillip said to Nathanael, come and see. And Jesus, as Nathanael is coming toward him, he says of him, behold or see. He basically, that word there in the interlinear Bible is the same word. Jesus basically says, see. Here comes Nathanael as he's coming toward him. Even before Nathanael arrived. And then Jesus answered him before Philip even called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. So interesting observations there. We'll just turn it to the panel here for opening thoughts, and then we'll circle back. So, Dr. Jon? Yeah. Just the whole idea about how you can read scripture a few different times and then you get something different out of it is like when you and I were talking about this particular portion and just, I'd never even seen, hello, that before, where it's, it's the, the sequence of events where Nathanael is, is encouraged, go see. And then Jesus says, I saw you. And I love the fact that it's this whole idea of before you even were searching for me, I already saw you. And Nathanael must have been in a very isolated place because like, all Jesus had to say was, you were under the fig tree and I saw you. And he's like, I believe. He's like, I was alone. There was no one around me. So that is, I think, such an encouraging thing. That little portion is just like a golden nugget. And otherwise, it's kind of like it could almost be like a flyover type passage of scripture where you kind of just keep on going. But Jesus was like, I see you, and I saw you before you even knew that I was seeing and looking at you. And what came to my mind, too, is the story of the prodigal son, which I think is that was really the thing that kept on coming in my mind when I was thinking about this passage of scripture. I was going to read it really quick. Luke 15:11-32. Out of the ESV it says, "And he said," Jesus is telling the story. “'There was a man who had two sons. And the younger of them said to his father... "give me the share of property that is coming to me." And he divided his property between them. Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything. “'But when he came to himself, he said, "How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.'" And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son." But the father said to his servants, "Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." And they began to celebrate.'" And obviously the part that kind of stands out there is verse 20 when it says, but while he was still a long way off, his father saw him. And if I'm not mistaken, like Jewish culture would have been, not to run out to a son that was wayward. If I'm not mistaken. And the fact that his son was working with pigs, I mean, and to embrace the son, I mean, he must have just been filthy and obviously penniless. And yet the father was obviously also looking for him. Like, it wasn't just, like, happen to see him in the distance. He was probably. If they had binoculars back then, he was looking for with binoculars. And until he saw his son, and then it's like, there he is. So, I think God definitely does, obviously, the same thing with us. He's always looking for us. I think just to piggyback off of that concept is, I don't know where I heard it or saw it the first time, but I worked at a summer camp a million years ago, and we did skits at campfire time, and we did a skit one year where they would show a person kind of walking away from Jesus and doing different things that were maybe, like, frowned upon. And I think we, as humans often think, like, "I have done something so shameful or so just beyond, like, forgiveness," that we think God has turned away from us. And in the skit, it was showing Jesus, like, always, his posture was always leaning towards us, even if our back is towards him. And sort of like the prodigal son, the dad is, the father is watching. His posture is waiting in anticipation for us to turn back around. His back is never turned away from us. So, like, aside from the fact that he sees everything all the time, he's always got his eye on us because he's always in a posture towards us. I think that's one of the most comforting traits about God. Yeah. Yeah. One of the first things that came to mind for me was thinking, like. Like you're saying, pointing out that Jesus saw Nathanael before Nathanael ever saw him, which I don't think I'd ever noticed in that scripture before. But looking back in my own life, I remember feeling like Jesus found me, that I didn't find God. And I know that some people get really caught up in the semantics of, like, "we don't invite Jesus into our heart. We give him our entire," like, I don't try and do that, but I really do think that there was a key difference, that I was not looking for God, but God found me. And then looking back to before, before I met the Lord and kind of noticing that there were all these experiences in my life that were, I mean, traumatic or, like, painful or etc., and then suddenly it's like I could see Jesus in the room with me and not like in a visual way. But it's like, oh, my gosh. All of a sudden, all those experiences that I thought, like, I was totally alone in, and no one could ever understand, that God was absolutely with me in that. And that's what's coming to mind for me. And this is that I was not looking for him, but he saw everything, and he was a part of all of those details. Yeah. So, yeah. Another couple observations there is that when Jesus sees Nathanael, he says, "'Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!'" And on a prior episode, we talked about how Jesus changed the name of Simon to Peter. Now, in this case, Jesus appears to be saying, like, here's an Israelite indeed. That was the name that God had already changed, Jacob, whose name might include deceit. Jesus is saying, here's someone whose name is already, he's already operating in the new name in a sense. And so, it's interesting that the name comes up in that sense as Jesus identifies him. Some people get their name changed, and some people, God affirms that they're operating in the way already, I suppose. And then, of course, there's these references back to something that happened thousands of years ago in the book of Genesis, when Jesus says, “'Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.'” A lot of people see the parallel that that's a reference to Jacob's ladder. Jacob, again, Israel. That same wordage was used regarding the ladder that Jacob saw in his vision of angels coming up and down. And Jesus is basically saying there that he is the ladder. He is the bridge between earth and heaven in that sense. So, a few references there to the Old Testament, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, he was, like, already saying, like, I believe you, and then, and then Jesus is like, and here's just more, even though you already say that you believe me because I saw you on the fig tree. I just think it's cool that it's like, it almost seems like that once we believe, it's, I don't know, like, revelation can start to be revealed to us. And with Nathanael, it was pretty instantaneous, like, I believe, and Jesus just starts to say more amazing things to him which would reaffirm what he just said. And for maybe for a lot of us, we have that over the course of, like, years where, like, you know, God is true in his word, and we see it in our own lives. And, like, in, with Nathanael, it's just like he gets that, like, boom, boom, which is. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Because at that point, there are, perhaps there are people even today who are searching for a savior, and they have not yet been introduced to Jesus in a sense, or they don't yet, haven't yet been prompted to come and see who he is. To those people who are searching, maybe like Nathanael, there could be a parallel there. Like, I'm the one that you were looking for, and it's, like, instantaneous, in a sense. Right. Everything clicks really fast. Like, once they realize that this is the one that they were diligently, there's no deceit in them, they are honestly searching, and then the introduction happens, and it's like—this is, yeah, that's it. I think that if you're genuinely searching for truth, you have, I mean, no choice but to find God, because God is truth. And so, yeah, for people that are genuinely on, I mean. I mean, this is kind of ironic because we're saying Jesus saw them first, but. Sure. But I do think that there is, like, God is truth. So, if you're looking for truth, you're gonna find God eventually. But I do notice that that is something that happened in my life, and I've seen a lot of people have that same experience where once you do meet God, it's like, there's, like, a season there where it's like an onslaught of revelation just, like, continually, one after another sort of thing. And I don't know why God does that or, like, why he doesn't do that for some people, but it can feel, like, really, like, okay, like, I was living in this darkness, and, like the roof just like came off, and suddenly you're just seeing so much more. You just access to, like, a world that you didn't understand before. Yeah. It's really amazing. Yeah. Well, maybe that's, like, if Jesus always. He always sees us and he's just waiting for us to look for him. Yeah. Then it's like, boom, the two meet up, and everything starts clicking. Yeah. I sold art for a while at, like, farmers markets. Nice. There happens to be a farmers market maybe blocks away from here that I sold at. And, you know, there's all these booths, crystals, sound baths, like tarot card readers, all these things. And it's clear that people are searching for something. And it would just break my heart every time I would see that. So, I make farmhouse signs, and I'd be like, where's the one with scripture that's, like, telling the truth? And I would put it out on the, cause, it's like, so sad to see how many people are looking for something and they just don't know exactly what they're looking for. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And to be not, I don't wanna say to be close, but miss it, cause it is pretty far off, but to be in the mindset where it's like, I want something more. I want that thing that's missing in my life. And then to just veer off just enough to where it's like, I found something, but it's just something. It's not the thing. Yeah. There's another time when the Bible records God seeing someone. And this is clear back in Genesis, chapter 16, verses, starting in verse 7, out of the ESV. Speaking of Hagar, "The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur. And he said, 'Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from and where are you going?' She said, 'I am fleeing from my mistress Sarai.' The angel of the Lord said to her, 'Return to your mistress and submit to her.' The angel of the Lord also said to her, 'I will surely multiply your offspring so that they cannot be numbered for multitude.' And the angel of the Lord said to her, 'Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has listened to your affliction. He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.' So she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, 'You are a God of seeing,' for she said, 'Truly here I have seen him who looks after me.' Therefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi; it lies between Kadesh and Bered." And that was through verse 14 there. There's lots of footnotes in the ESV. There's a footnote on verse 13, it says, "Or You are God who sees me." There's a footnote on verse 14, "Beer-lahai-roi means the well of the Living One who sees me." And chronologically, God's appearance to Hagar, it precedes God changing the name of Abram to Abraham. And obviously it precedes changing the name of Jacob to Israel. God told Hagar, you will name your son Ishmael, which is, in a sense, a testament of God's own action. Ishmael means God hears. He sees and he hears all the same. Yeah. And then she says, or you are a God who sees me. Yeah. So even before the nations, Abraham, even before Abraham basically, really got started in being the father of many nations, God says about himself, I am the God who sees an Egyptian woman who was treated harshly, fled and didn't know where she was going. She didn't have an answer to the second question, "where are you going?" She only said, I've left. Yeah, I know where I've been. I don't know where I'm going. I don't know where I'm going. And God says, I see that. So very interesting there. Yeah. I actually highlighted, that scripture to bring up, too. I don't know that I have a ton more to say about it, but it's so amazing to me that she was in this, like, pretty destitute place. Right? And I think for anybody who has had a history of abuse, neglect, like, lots of things that could cause us to go, like, "Is God good? Does he care about me? Like, what's happening?" Right? And I love this scripture because it proves that even those who are in very, very destitute places, he is paying attention, and he sees it all. And he has a plan to not waste any of those moments if we turn towards him. Right? Yeah. Right? Yeah. And if our hearts are hardened against God, a message even directly from God saying, I see you. I mean, how many times have we spoke with people, even felt it ourselves, where it's like, great, you see me, but this is where I'm at right now. And this is horrible, the horrible place that I'm in. The idea of humility, I suppose in those moments where it's just because you don't know how it's going to end doesn't mean that God doesn't see you and that he's already making that path straight for you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Another angle here. Reading out of Psalm 135, verses 15 and 16. Out of the ESV, "The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of human hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; they have eyes, but do not see;" and then Colossians 3:5 out of the ESV, "Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." Now, idolatry seems like almost like a distant concept or a foreign concept or Old Testament. I don't know. There's a lot of imagery that comes to mind that doesn't seem relevant for today. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the idols don't see you. And all the investment of time and energy and resources into things that could possibly be labeled an idol. They don't see you. That's to say, they don't see the real you. There's never a reciprocation of any of the effort to them. Yeah. And so, a lot of people might look at idolatry like, well, let's not do that because we don't want to make God jealous. But the other way of looking at it is don't engage in the idolatry because you will never be seen by those things. It's like having a, like following somebody, perhaps on social media and idolizing somebody and being a super fan. I mean. Yeah. Some of these are, you know, I'm trying to find some kind of contemporary examples of what this might look like. But going all in, going to all the shows, buying all the merch, and they never even see you. They never even know you exist. There's never a reciprocation there. Yeah. What God is, I think, saying is that, well, I see you. So, you can invest in me, you can give your resources to me, you can spend time with me, and I actually will see you. Right. Those efforts will never come up empty and unreciprocated with God. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the fan that runs up to their idol. "I know every word of every song you've ever done. Know everything you've ever done." "Cool." Yeah. "That's great. Uh, okay. Picture, shirt. Okay, hey." What was that Jerry Seinfeld thing, where that gal? Kesha. Where that gal comes up to him? Yeah. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Can I get a hug? No, no, thank you. No, thank you. No, thank you. One of the greatest clips ever. He's like, I don't know who she was. Yeah. Well, I wish her the best. Yeah, yeah. You know who was a wonderful to meet in person, met every expectation, I feel like I was saw by him, was Richard Dean Anderson. MacGyver. MacGyver. Yep. Go, MacGyver. Yep. He, uh. He's the genuine article. He was a good guy. Is there a picture of him in this room? There might be. Yeah. He earned a spot? Like a Where's Waldo. If you can spot him, send us a little message. I saw MacGyver in here. So. You can't see him at the moment. Okay. When I was in Nepal in November, I think one of the things that was really intense, like, in your face, was the idolatry. I can say that word. You know, like, we went to this mountain in the middle of the city that is, the entire mountain is a shrine to Buddha. And they're ringing these bells and saying these chants and spinning the prayer wheels and doing so many things. And my friend that lives in the country doing some work there, was explaining that they do all of that because if you look at a Buddha statue, his eyes are, like, half closed, just kind of like doing his own thing. And to get his attention and have him turn towards you and show you favor, you have to do all these things. And I was kind of taken aback by that because it's so comforting to serve the God we serve. And, like, there are things we're called to do as believers and followers of Christ, but there's not a checklist of things that we have to do every day to earn favor or have him notice us or remember us. Right. And I'm just so thankful that I got to be born in a country where I got to hear the name of Jesus from the, from the time I was born, basically. And thinking about the billions of people on the planet who do all of these things that are idolatry, ultimately. There's no hope in any of that stuff that they're doing. It's very sad. Yeah. And it's like the, like you were saying how you have to make big gestures in order to, you know, get Buddha to notice you. And then you have something like from Matthew 18:10-13 that says, “'See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.'" And do you think if a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountain and go in search of the one that went away? And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. So, it's like with Buddha, you're waving your hands, like, essentially saying, like, "Daddy, look at me, look at me," and will never look at you. And then in the Matthew account, it's like Jesus is chasing after you if you've gone astray. Actually, I don't know if you guys had this thought. On Sunday, we had someone in church who was yelling intermittently, like, every 10 seconds, as loud as you possibly could the name of Jesus. And I'm all for being expressive, like, truly, it was, like, alarming every time. Like, it just shook me. And I remember having this thought. I was like, does he, is he trying to get God's attention? Like. And not that you can't express how you want to express, but I actually did remember thinking, like, thank God that, like, especially me being more of an introvert and not loving being the center of attention. I always have God's attention if I need it. Like, I really always just have, like, at any given time, God. And not because of, like, anything that I've done, I haven't achieved anything necessarily, but it really, truly is that the gospel of Jesus Christ is that he sees us and he made a way for us to be reunited with God so we can rest in that knowledge that our needs are met. And, like. And then, conversely, when you think of. I did watch this documentary on a cult one time. I forget the name of the cult, but it was on Netflix. It was really interesting because it took place, I think, actually, in a camp that now exists here. I can't remember, it was so good. But I just remember noticing that this man ran this cult, and people from all over the place would come and worship him and lay at his feet. And it got to the point the cult grew so big that he wouldn't come out for, like, months at a time, and then he'd come out for a few minutes and they would lose their minds. And then he would say one or two things, leave, and they would not have any relationship with him. They'd be totally disconnected with him. They don't even know him. They have no personal. But they just had this idea in his head that he was so amazing. And I just remember thinking, like. Like, the contrast between, like, a relationship with the Lord versus that, and not to knock people down who are experiencing that, I think they're genuinely looking for what we're all looking for. You know? It's like you said, like, idols are not looking back at you. They don't see you the same way God can see you. I don't know where I was going with that. We'll just stop there. Yeah, well, I mean, just. Just that there are figureheads that they will give you two words, if you're lucky, and that's it. And God is like, I will give you all day, every day. My door is always open to you. Ask me anything. Yeah. Yeah. The Lord's prayer is daily. Give us this day our daily bread. So, the invitation is. It's not like once a year. Right. Yeah. See you at Christmas. Yeah. If you give me my presents. Yeah. Right. If you give me my Fanta. Right? Your Fanta? Yeah. That's big in Thailand. Oh, okay. A lot of Fantas on the road. Little shrines. Yeah. In Thailand, we. We stayed in this hotel that was literally across the street from this shrine on the beach, it was just chickens. Like thousands of statues of chickens. I don't know why. The reality, though, is even here in the west, we still have idolatry. Like. Oh, yeah. It's just masked in more acceptable ways. And we have to be very conscious about where our loyalties are and what our attention is being given to and. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of examples where people will lay, you know, Fanta at the altar of work or, you know, of a relationship even, or, you know, drugs, alcohol. The things that take that highest order in our lives is, that's the thing that every day we'll go to and we'll make sure that it's put in the right place, make sure that we're appeasing the thing that's the highest place in our lives, and then walk away thinking, okay, I did, I'm good. Yeah. And that can be especially true of, I mean, obviously unbelievers, but Christians as well. That's when it gets really sneaky, is we think that. I think, I think what's actually really interesting is oftentimes we think that we're serving the Lord, but we're serving ourselves and not totally realizing that we've taken up an idol. And I guess it's kind of what you're just saying there. But I think it's kind of fascinating to be, I mean, especially I think the church can be an idol like you think, because I'm volunteering in the church for x amount of hours or doing what I'm "supposed" to be doing and whatnot, and not really realizing how far we are from the Lord, I guess, like that would be where the enemy has his, not his way. But I would say those are the things to really be on the lookout for. Those good things that replace the best things, I guess. Well, yeah, you can look through the letters, Paul's letters in the New Testament and find all sorts of issues that were creeping into the, into the church at that time. And it's like, yeah, the devil's ways can be sneaky, can infiltrate, whether it's through a false teaching or idolatry or something that sneaks in, it can come in forms that may not appear to be the actual worst-case scenario. Sure. Yeah. I mean, right? Because Satan can't create. He can only replicate as best that he can, but I think can get pretty close sometimes. I think that he can get, it can almost look almost identical. And that, to your point, that's the tricky part, is when it seems like it's the right thing, but it's like the Bible reading has become the thing that I need to do in order to be okay with God, or I need to volunteer in order. It's. And I think that's why there's so much talk in the Bible about, this is a grace. This is a. This is all. It's grace based. It's not works based. And that's the big distinguishing factor between many religions and Christianity is you have to work and work and work in order to get saved or to receive some type of redemption. To be seen. Yeah. By God or anybody else. Yep. In order to be seen. And then Christianity is like, no, because I've seen you first. Yeah. What's the scripture? It's probably follow me as I follow Christ. Nope. It's a good one. It's three episodes in a row. Is it? I don't know. The verse where. It's probably the one where it just says, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. I think that's another example of, like, you didn't have to do anything. It's already been done before you could even think about doing something. And so again, I see you before you've even thought about looking for me. Yeah. He doesn't. God doesn't condition it. Like, I saw you when you were good. That's when I finally saw you. Yeah. He doesn't say, once you did these acts, then I saw those acts. Like, in the case of Hagar, she did act with contempt. She was a. Maybe rightfully so, or, you know, you could argue that. But point being is that it's not like she was at her best, you know, when she's more or less bringing upon the harshness on herself. She was contemptuous, but God saw her in that state nonetheless. I would probably argue that she didn't want to be seen initially in the state that she was in. I don't think I would. But then, like, God's. God's seeing is not what I think that would have been what she was used to. To be in such a, I don't know, horrifying position and confusing position and painful position. I guess, like, I would say there's probably a reason why she's fleeing. And I don't think that it was to be seen. But then when God saw her, had a different effect on her life and the decisions that she made following that. Yeah. Yeah. Any other thoughts? Actually. Actually, I can give a little something. I can give a little something that's kind of cool. You know what? See's candy. Boom. Boom. So, there's that. So, there's that. Not everybody. We're going to start saying all the ways we know the word "see." Not everybody knows about See's candy. They're, like, local. They're local. And we have fans as far reaching as France, apparently. Yeah, sorry, France. I mean, when I was in Paris one night, I literally just bought French pastries and that was my dinner. Wow. It was pretty incredible. You know what they call French pastries in France? Pastries? Pastries. Just pastries. Just pastries. That was pretty awesome. That sounds delicious, though. Sounds like a good night. I mean, that. We can't get that here. French pastries? We can get like a pain au chocolat. Sometimes. Sometimes, but it's not. You ever been to Henry's Donuts? I have been to Henry's Donuts. Pretty close, probably. You know what they call donuts at Henry's Donuts? Just donuts. Just donuts. It's actually pronounced Henry's Donuts. Henry. It's very French. Okay, well, so I had, I had another thought. It had to do with the word "see," but a little bit in a different context. And this is, this is taken from J.C. Ryle's Expository Thoughts on the Gospel of John. And he writes, "If we call ourselves true Christians, let us never be afraid to deal with people about their souls as Philip dealt with Nathanael. Let us invite them boldly to make proof of our religion. Let us tell them confidently that they cannot know its real value until they have tried it. Let us assure them that vital Christianity courts every possible inquiry. It has no secrets. It has nothing to conceal. Its faith and practice are spoken against, just because they are not known. Its enemies speak evil of things with which they are not acquainted. They understand neither what they say nor whereof they affirm. Philip's mode of dealing, we may be sure, is one principal way to do good. Few are ever moved by reasoning and argument. Still fewer are frightened into repentance. The man who does most good to souls, is often the simple believer who says to his friends, 'I have found a Savior; come and see Him.'" And I just think that's such a cool way to look at it, where you don't need to, don't need to do much, you don't need to, we don't need to do the heavy lifting. It's just, come and see what I've seen. And I do think, as Billy Graham that once said, it's God's job to judge, it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict, it's my job to love. And so, if it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict, then all we need to do is basically do as Philip did, which is just, come and see what I've seen. I think that's the power of our testimonies. Right? Anybody could argue over semantics or theological points or whatever, but you can't argue with, like, this is what I experienced, and this is what God has done in my life. Right. And that, I think, is where our, where the power is in sharing the gospel is through our testimony and how God has shown up and been faithful for—and Jesus—and for us. Right? Like, that's what people need to hear. Yeah. Yeah. Well, any closing thoughts on this topic? I think one of the thoughts that I had when I read this, there's this meme, or it's like a bumper sticker, I'm not sure, but it's like Jesus, like, popping out of a corner and going, I saw that. And I think that—or I'm making that up in my head—but I think that's kind of like, some people's view of Jesus. And when they think of, like, how he sees us is, like, he's always trying to catch us out doing something bad or, like, keep track of all the wrongdoing that we done. And when I think of it also kind of made me think of with me, with my students, we, you know, we go to recess, we always have eyes on them. Like, we always know where they're at. We always know what they're doing. And we should. And there are some times where, like, they might be, like, playing football and the ball goes behind a big portable and they kind of run after it. And I have to say, like, a thousand times a day, "I need to see you. I need to know where you are." And it's not because I'm trying to, like, "Oh, I can catch them saying a naughty word" or anything like that. It's because I need to know that they're safe. And I also. I hate it when I miss when they do something awesome. Like, I really hate when, like, a staff member comes in and they're like, did you see so and so and, like, what he did? And I'm like, "Oh, I missed," you know? And I think that there's, like, a dynamic about God with that where he just, like, his eyes are on us because of his care for us and this also, that he is our protector and that he is the one who keeps us safe. And if something should happen, like, there are times where, like, my students, I'm not there in time, and something happened, and I have to be right there to help them process through what just happened. And so, there's. It's not necessarily that. I think that sometimes we get this mindset that, like, or depending on your perception of God, that God is trying to catch you out or that he's just, like, he's so angry and he's trying to catch you doing something wrong. And the reality is, like, we can retrain our thinking to get to know God is that he just deeply cares about us. And, I mean, not even just deeply care. I mean, we are everything to him. And so. Well, I was just going to piggyback. I mean, you actually ended up saying basically what I was thinking, which is, it's amazing how we project onto God our own experiences and how we view either our own circumstances or our own experiences, or usually even more closely, our own experiences with our earthly fathers. That can certainly be how we'll look at God. Is he angry? Is he absent? Is he present? And it's like when the Bible says God sees us. Yes. Like, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Like, "Oh, he's trying to get us because he's angry at us," or, "No, he's not. He doesn't see us. I don't even believe that that's what is true." And so, yeah, to your point, it's what is really the true character of God. And how much are we just projecting our own experiences onto him and his word and his truth? Well, in, like, working with my clients, you know, we talk about identity and a lot of painful things, and I like to point them towards Psalm 139, talking about how God saw us from the beginning. And I think my favorite verse in there is, let me. I'm sorry. It's like we. "Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." So, I often say to clients or friends who I'm just talking to when they're going through hard things or questioning, like, "Where was God in that?" And I say, like, he saw all of the things that were going to happen to you throughout your whole life before you were ever even existing, and he still said yes. So, like, if you're on this planet and waking up in the morning and breathing, like there's purpose to it, I think that's really powerful. Yeah. If you got a pulse, you got a purpose. Absolutely. Yeah. God is outside linear time. And so, it's not just that he saw us, but he sees us, and it's like the if. Yeah, obviously, if, like, the if time, our existence is, like, on a line, like he does, he sees the entire page that the line is written on. And so, he doesn't just. He didn't just. He didn't just saw us. That sounds really weird, but he sees us, and so. And he'll continue to see us, and he'll never stop seeing us. And that is to your, like you're saying, it's a very comforting place to be. Yeah. Well, in Matthew 22 and verse 32, or actually in verses 31 and 32, "'as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.'” And so that kind of ties in with this idea that God exists outside of what we would think of is linear time. Right. Oh, okay. It's like he is the God of these people right now. Right. Yeah. Even. Even right now. Right. Yeah. It's still happening right now. Right. So anyway, the way that God knows them, he knew them, obviously, during their earthly existence, and he continues to know them now. So, he knows and he knew them before they knew him. God sees and God knows, and he's omnipotent in that way, so. Well, this wraps up this episode of The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. I want to thank Christina and Robyn and Jon and myself. Take care, everybody. Good night. Good night. Thank you for listening to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. If you enjoyed what you heard, we invite you to, like, share, subscribe, and give a five-star rating. Find us online at TheDefinedPodcast.com. Scripture quotations are from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved. The ESV text may not be quoted in any publication made available to the public by a Creative Commons license. 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