Episode Transcript
You guys don't want me to be normal.
No, that's boring.
What even is that?
Welcome back to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon, et al., a Bible study in which panelists from a variety of backgrounds, including coaching, education, management, ministry, and psychology seek hope and truth in what some would call austere times.
My name is Chris, joined once again with my brother Jon, and once again with Mandy and Rogelio and Robyn. Welcome, everybody.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Today we are concluding our discussion on the topic of "do" or action from the book of John, chapter 2, verses 1-11.
And before we get started, I'll just remind everybody, if you haven't already liked or subscribed to our program, I'd encourage you to do so now. This might be a, might see a little pause before the next full episode is available. So we don't want you to forget about us, and we want you to know when we are back. So if you haven't already, thank you for those who have. And we just want to keep you in the loop for what's going on here. So. All right, well, we're looking at Jesus' miracle at the wedding at Cana, and one of the things that kind of stands out to me about that. I'll just bring some opening comments, then we'll turn it to the panelists here for additional commentary. But interesting thing about this miracle is that Jesus instructed servants to do something, to take an action. And those servants weren't necessarily the beneficiaries of the miracle.
Yet Jesus chose to act through a servant.
And some see some parallels there between the water being turned to wine, and later Jesus in the Last Supper says that his wine is the blood.
And so just one thing about this miracle here is that Jesus initiated the miracle. It didn't necessarily require faith on the part of the servants. They're servants, they're doing what they're told, and yet he chose to work through them. He could have just, just had, like other miracles in the Bible where like the oil never ran out of the pots, they just kept, you know, the containers that were already there, they just kept drawing from them and the wine could have kept coming through there.
Other miracles have required perhaps an act of faith on the part of the beneficiary. Like Naaman had to dip in the, in the Jordan River, I believe it was. And then his miracle came upon him. After his act of obedience. Jesus acted through a servant, yet the servant didn't necessarily, wasn't necessarily the beneficiary of the miracle, yet there just seems to be a parallel there even perhaps to sharing the gospel now, like, we who follow Jesus, who believe in him, we now are his servants. Like the Apostle Paul says, we serve Christ. We take action, and yet we aren't necessarily the beneficiaries of those actions anymore. Like, we are acting, serving him, serving others for the benefit of others that they may realize the wine, the blood, so to speak. So anyway, that's my opening thoughts there. We'll just turn it to the rest of the panelists here for additional opening thoughts.
Yeah, no, I like that because everything should point to Jesus and his example at the wedding. And you kind of laid it out there. It's really powerful. It's really good, because, yeah, we are servants, and we're not going to benefit directly, necessarily, from the work that we do, that we're called to do, that God is telling us to do, going back to the word do. And so that's a really, that's a great thought.
And then, like, you're saying, too, about the symbolism with, you know, it, there's also.
The wine is then talked about at the Last Supper as representing God's blood. And I just. This whole, this whole, like, wedding scene, the more I studied it, the more I read about it and was writing about it. It's like when you're watching a movie, like, you watch it, like, the first time, it's like, oh, it's a good, like, great, great movie. Then you watch, like, three or, you know, four times. Then you're like, wow, there's some things that I missed. And that's, like, that's like, it's more full. Like, I didn't realize that these little, like, Easter eggs were, you know, all throughout. And this, this wedding, very similar for me because there's like, yeah, he could have just, the vats of wine could have just been filled miraculously, but he used vessels that were used for purification, Jewish rites of purification, both physically and spiritually. And, like, it is like this whole new, like, if you caught it, you would see something significant is going on, that the old way is passing away, and there's a new thing afoot. There's something new to focus on. And then that then is God's Jesus' blood represented through wine at the Last Supper. So. And all taking place at a wedding, it's another thing, because then the church is the bride, and it's like, I don't know, the more you read it, the more you study. And I guess this is where the Word is living, where it's even better than watching a movie, obviously, over and over. You see new things. It's not stagnant. It's not going to just, you'll read it through ten times and you'll, "oh, I totally get it now" because it's living. You'll get something new and continue to be new, I believe. So, yeah, the symbolism in this account at the wedding, it just kind of blew my mind a bit.
Yeah. So many parallels from the beginning of this ministry to the end and being on the cross. I loved that, actually, the servants, you know, they had to do what they were told, and also they filled it to the brim. Like, they had this idea that something, something cool was gonna happen, right? And they wanted to be part of that. And they actually took a blessing from that. And they were the first to really be blessed through actually doing what, an act of obedience. And we're always blessed when we are acting in obedience to God. And then the part where his mother is just has this faith, like, you can do this. And I've seen, obviously, she knows more about Jesus than others and just has the faith that he's just gonna not obey what she says, but just come through for what she's asking. And I love The Chosen. A lot of people have different opinions, but I love their portrayal of this moment where Jesus takes a step aside and says, okay, God, is this my time? Is this where I step into this knowing full well where it's going to take him? And he does. And a lot of theologians actually believe that he did take that moment in the story and pray and ask God if this was the time, and he felt that it was to do that. But also the servants take, he tells them, take a cup to the master of ceremonies and do they know the miracle has happened? Do they know it's wine or does it still look like water? You know? I mean, that's a big deal because culturally, to have run out of wine was a really bad thing. It would have been a bad portrayal on the marriage, and the people would have been, this would have followed their marriage for the rest of their life. So, to take that to the master of ceremonies with this absolute faith that whatever Jesus did has been done, I mean, it's just a beautiful, beautiful picture of Jesus and how much he does for us in our lives.
You know, something that, for me comes up just in my own experiences is this, like, place of lack. And I think I kind of, that's what, what jumps out at me is like, being in a place of lack and how Jesus provided and even, like, the blood of, like, the new covenant with God through Jesus Christ. Like, there's just something about that, right? The wine covers the lack. And I think, in a funny way, I think I've been thinking about how in life, I feel like the game's kind of rigged. I feel like we win against all odds, no matter what happens. I know there's a lot of tragedies and very real pain and suffering in the world, but in a funny way, I feel like the game of life is rigged in our favor. I mean, it ends in victory. We've already won the game. And so just. It's kind of a funny thing for me to, like, contemplate recently, but, yeah, that's all.
Good.
Yeah. So, I was thinking on, like, what you were saying with, like, how beautiful that is that Jesus even took that moment to do that. And because in my mind, I think often I wonder, like, because culturally, it is a big faux pas. I've even heard there's huge fines that could happen if you run out of wine at a wedding in this day and age. Right? And I think, like, in my mind, if it were my wedding, would I be like, "Do I want to bother Jesus with this?" Like, you know what I mean? And I think of how often, I don't know if fear is the right word, but, like, we just fail to come before Jesus with the needs and the requests that we have, and it may be the difference between life as we know it and then, like, experiencing a miracle, I guess. So, yeah.
You know, piggyback off that. I love that Jesus was invited to the wedding. Like, he was someone you wanted to have at your wedding, and he was someone that was not just invited, but he was welcome. And he was just part of the festivities. He wasn't there to preach the gospel or shove it down anyone's throat. He was there to enjoy life and enjoy this party and this celebration. I think that's a huge, about doing and being the love of Jesus. And to our neighbors, I think that's part of what we should take away from that is just enjoying life and being the hands and feet of Jesus and everyday life doesn't look necessarily like you have to stop and tell everybody, you have to accept Jesus right now, but to love people right where they're at.
Yeah. There could be actions that God would have his servants take that, you know, you might not know what the outcome is going to be.
Like, these servants are bringing the water to somebody, and it's just do what you're told, you know, reach out to this person this way do this action this way, and the result of that won't be seen until the follow through takes place, basically. And then who knows what will come of that, you know?
In 2 Corinthians, chapter 11, verses 23-28, reading out of the ESV, Paul talks about basically his efforts as a servant of Christ in preaching the gospel. So just reading that here, he says,
"Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches."
So, in his service, he's listing all these oppositions, and then, like, that's just to get to work. And then he's like, once I get to work, there's the daily pressure of. I finally got there, and now there's the daily pressure of the anxiety for the churches.
And I'm anxious.
Anyway, he's kind of, like, in humility, he's calling himself, like, the ultimate servant. Like, he's boasting in these things that are, that are difficulties, but kind of like you were saying, Ro, like, and we've talked about in other podcasts, like, sometimes these good deeds or these things that people are called to, it's for the benefit of others.
That's basically the service. There's a lot of different ways of looking at your relationship with God, and it's pretty cool that there's lots of different ways. There's the family aspect of it, where we're adopted as children of God. We've talked about that, and then there's also the service aspect of it, where we are now that we're saved, it's like, get to work, in a sense. There's stuff to do. There's stuff to, you know, let's get more people into the, into the family.
Right.
And this is the type of thing that could come along with that.
It's just kind of like, this is what it takes. So interesting thoughts there on servanthood and what doing can look like in some examples there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think, like, waking up every morning and with the understanding that it's you and God and you're on an adventure together, and it's kind of like, God, what do you have for me to do today? And if we can wake up in the morning with that expectation, that curiosity, I mean, every day can be a serious adventure. And, like, you know, from, you know, maybe like, when you're reading that whole list of Paul stuff, it's like, yeah, it sounded kind of, like, really rough, but then part of me was also like, it sounds kind of awesome. I mean, it's like shipwrecked and, like, going down, like, a river and, like, it's like, that sounds like a really exciting thing. Now, maybe if Paul was sitting here, he'd be like, "dude, that wasn't great," but it does sound pretty epic. And so, I think that a journey with God, he will put you into different positions and scenarios when we are committing ourselves to be his servant.
And if we have that willing heart and being a willing vessel, every day can be incredibly exciting. And if the point of life, a big portion of it, is to get as many people to heaven as possible, well, then it's like, yeah, it's like we have, we have our, we probably all have our two to three things or more that God has us here on earth to do. Just seems like that if you got a pulse, you got a purpose. And I think that there's the big things, and then there's the side missions. It's like the daily, okay, now you're going to go on a side quest over here. You're going to do this while you're going towards your main things, too. And if we can really just keep God at the focus, every day can be just really full.
Yeah.
Something that I echo, Jon, is like, being in relationship with Jesus, it's also gonna do something, like, in us, and he's gonna stir us. And because, yeah, the idea of, like, him doing something in us, it also makes me think to use, like, the wine kind of as, like, a pun, it's like, it makes me think of how he's, like, pouring, like, pouring into us.
And so, like, Jesus pouring into us and being in relationship with us is hopefully going to do something.
And even in therapy, in psychotherapy, I've heard this way of saying it, of a T.R.E., which is a transformational relational experience.
And so, I think even just being there supportively as a friend, too, or as a family member, a transformational relational experience sounds amazing, and I love thinking of that. It's what a friend in Jesus like, if he's like, I'm hoping he can do, I mean, I know he can do anything, but, like, I'm hoping that if I kind of, like, let him do things in me, that'll be, it'll be worth it. So, that sounds exciting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
I need to be transformed.
I read a story of a man who was at the grocery store and felt like he was supposed to buy milk. And he's thinking, I don't drink milk. I don't need milk. But he's still feeling the unction of the Holy Spirit to buy milk. And so he buys the milk, and he says, okay, now what do you want me to do with the milk? And he gets in his car and starts driving, and he feels like, okay, turn right. Okay, I'm turning right. And now turn left. And he ends up at this apartment complex. He goes up to where he feels like he's supposed to go, knocks on the door, hears people yelling inside, a baby crying. Chaos. He knocks on the door again, and finally this man rips open the door and starts yelling,
"What do you want?" And he said,
"Well, I don't. I don't know why. Just felt like I was supposed to buy milk and bring it to you."
And the man breaks down crying and says,
"My baby hasn't eaten all day because we ran out of milk and didn't have money to afford it."
So, being available for what God would have you do, I mean, really, how much time out of his day did that take to affect these lives of these people who now have experienced God in a very real and practical way?
Yeah. Yeah.
Wow.
I feel like if that guy ripped the door open and I was just,
"What do you want?"
"M— Milk."
Feels so weird, but that's, like, those are some of the adventures that God will take us.
It's so true.
And it's like, such a.
I hope you need milk.
Exactly. It's such a simple thing. And, like, what's the worst that could happen? He'd be like,
"Okay, weirdo."
And then, you know, slam the door and maybe grab him by the neck. I don't know. Maybe he's a really violent guy. But I think of how often is God, like, nudging me to do something? And it just seems so insignificant that maybe I'm like, nah, just brush it off. But really, it could have turned around someone's life or someone's day or my own experience of God. And that's a really good point. Just, like, listen for those little details that feel probably insignificant, but so much can hinge on that.
Even, like you said, just in the morning, just giving that to God, like, Holy Spirit, I'm available for what you would have me do today. I'm listening and guide my steps and then go about your day and see what he'll do in it. You'll bring people across your path, he'll bring people into your workplace, help bring people to call your phone. He'll make it happen.
Or he'll bring you to help somebody.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's kind of interesting because, like, usually, like, if, I'll speak for myself, when I feel prompt to do something, like, if, like, God's telling me to do something, like it's a good thing. Like, it's like, give somebody this or go. Right? And so, it is weird how the, like, the knee jerk reaction is like, no, it's like, well, where does it even come from? Because it's like, okay, like, to your point, like, okay, what's the worst that could happen? The person gets free milk and they don't need it. Yeah, but it's like, so is it. It's just pure fear or what people gonna think? And it's like, it's usually, yeah, it's all good. Obviously. It is all good. What God wants us to do. And so, yeah, I guess a concern of looking silly.
Mm hmm.
And where can God take you in that? If you're, if he can trust you with taking milk? I mean, he could take it in such elevated places where you're that person in India, healing people of leprosy, because you have that faith and you're willingness to be obedient to what he says to do.
That's a really good point. Yep.
It's so hard to, you know, like, being a servant, like wanting to be a servant, because that, it sounds really good, to do that to help others. And as you said, fear is often, I think what can get in the way for myself, for a lot of people. Like, you know, we, we all want to be like Jesus, but it's easy to say that, right?
Yeah.
Until you really do in some ways get conformed to Jesus and in a sense of, like, even just like, thinking of being in some ways broken or like, for the right reasons, like even sacrifices and things like that. Like, what does it actually mean to look like Jesus, right? Or to do the things that God wants to do?
Because I think part of the fear is like, I think that he's going to do things that I want. Right? Like, oh, yeah, he's going to do the things that I want. But really it might just be like, no, like, the greatest among you is the greatest servant among you, and you're going to learn to, like, you know, like, lay down yourself.
Yeah.
And so hopefully that's kind of the heart behind that.
Yeah. The call to do something. It's important, I think, to keep in mind that one of the purposes of that is to birth faith in the recipient of that action.
Yeah.
And I think sometimes we can get so bogged down in our own matters of faith, trying to resolve within ourselves. Do I believe that this is of God or do I have faith that he's going to act? And I would just propose that that's the wrong attitude to have, because in that case, one should really have the attitude of a servant where you just do the thing.
You don't ask for details. Just do it.
Faith should be like, yeah, you need to have faith. But I wouldn't say that to do that action is a matter of trying to muster your own faith at that point. It's like, now we're trying to birth faith in someone else, you know?
Right.
So that they may believe. Like it says in John chapter 2 there at the end of verse 11. And his disciples believed in him. The faith in others was the result of the action.
Anyway, it's just, it's, it's kind of like a matter of maturity, in a sense, is kind of what I'm trying to say is that once you've resolved to serve, then it's just, you just do.
Right.
And then let God do his thing.
Yeah. And maybe that's something where we do a little, you know, we can do a personal deep dive into what actually did it mean to be a servant in those times.
Right.
Because, like you were saying, I would imagine that a good, you know, servant master relationship in biblical times, it's the servants, yeah, just did as they were told to do without a fear that they're being misled to do something that was going to harm them. If you had a loving master, I would imagine then it'd be like, oh, yeah, I'm just doing what I'm being told to do and it's all going to be just fine. And so there could be a, also, I guess, a layer of distrust. If God's telling me to do something, it's like, well, what if you, what if you're just gonna do this to, like, make me look stupid or like, no, he loves us. Like, he's not gonna tell us to do something that's gonna purposely harm us in the sense that like a manipulative, nasty, mean person would do. And so, it's like, yeah, we can trust.
I hear a lot of people say things like, I don't wanna open myself up to that cause what if God asks me to move to some obscure place in the world where, you know, etc., etc.? And I think that it goes back to what you're just saying is that God knows our hearts and he puts desires in our hearts. He's not going to uproot us unnecessarily into somewhere we don't want to go, don't have a heart for. I think that we just be open to what God wants to do and just see what he's going to do. And your faith is built in the process as well. When you see the person saying, I needed milk, you walked out that obedience and just grows.
Well, God grants us the desires of our hearts. I think we've talked about this in prior podcasts where it's the closer we go, we come to God, our desires become his desires. And so that fear of like, well, what if he wants me to go across the world? You'll probably want to go across the world, so the desires align and that's when things really start meshing really good.
Yeah.
And it may have been like you might, you may have had little preparation things that have led up to that point. Like the if, if God's going to send you somewhere, then maybe if you look in your past, you've done little mission trips here and there, you're being prepared along the way. Not all the time, but it very well could be like in the case of David where he said before he took out Goliath, he took out the bear, he took out the things like that.
For me, I wouldn't be shipwrecked with Paul. I'd be like shipwrecked at the dock. I don't know how to steer a boat or drive a boat or whatever the verb is of boat. What are you, boating?
I don't know how to boat a boat.
Yeah.
What do you call it?
I don't know how to boat.
I don't know how to boat a ship.
Sail?
You can barely Versa.
I was actually thinking about this yesterday, maybe? But we had talked a little bit in another podcast with follow, I think it was, in following the Lord into things that we don't necessarily want to do. And we talked about Abraham sacrificing Isaac and I was thinking on, would I have been able to do that? Like, would I ever be able to follow Jesus so much or follow God's command so much that I could sacrifice my own son on an altar? And I was thinking about, like, what kind of mindset he might have been in when he decided to go through with this. And it dawned on me that there are, it's kind of like you said, like, there are situations sometimes where God is, like, almost building our faith. Like, you do these little side mission trips, and then eventually you're like, maybe I do want to travel across the world. And there have been a couple of things in my life that God asked me to, like, lay down and sacrifice that I actually never thought I'd be able to do. But God had brought me to such a place of, like, you almost, like, your thought is, like, I have to do this. Like, there is no, like, from the point of "I could never do that," to now, "I'm suddenly doing this and I'm laying this down," because God had brought me on this journey where there's these little steps of faith along the way, where I've seen his faithfulness, and then before I know it, I'm able to lay this thing on the altar. And whatever he decides to do with that is up to him. But it was like a, it was a process, almost like I didn't see it happening. And I was like, I could never. I could never. And then I was like, whoa, I did it.
You know what I mean? And that's not true of everything. Like, I think it's kind of like the milk situation and whatnot. Like, I'm like, well, I really still don't like looking like a fool. But there's also a lot of things where I think that we, like God—he builds our faith for doing what he's asked us to do over time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've learned that usually the, "I could never," turns into the, "You will."
Yeah.
Or I will never.
That is the thing, then that then crept its way to the top of the hierarchy.
But do you find yourself starting to, like, just not say that anymore? Like, do you think you can hide that from God?
Just don't say it out loud. He'll never know.
Like, "I'll do anything you want, but."
Knows our hearts, darn it.
All right, well, any closing thoughts on this topic of doing, "do?"
Yeah, I think for me, it's a little bit of a, it's not specifically with the word "do" or really a lot of what it has to do with even the prior conversation. It has more to do with the amount that we can get from doing a deep dive in the Word. I mean, that's something that I've just been, when I'm writing the blogs, it's been so awesome to, it takes, like, about a week or something to get the whole thing done, each one. And just thinking about the scripture, thinking about how it applies to my life, really, it's, it turns into just a weeklong meditation on the Word. And it is, it's amazing the things that have kind of come out and surprised me, even with texts that I felt like I knew pretty well. So, I think my encouragement to anybody listening is that meditate and mull over the Word, and you don't need to do, like, a quick read through, you know, the Bible. It's like you can sit with something for a week, two weeks, and just see what God has to say to you through that.
And a great place to start is in the book of Luke. He was a physician, and he took a bunch of people's perspectives and put it all into one book. And it's a really easy read, and it's a logical read, so a lot of people can really relate to that. And also, piggyback off what you're saying earlier about Paul, it reminded me of Jesus. You know, Jesus was fully God and fully man, and in that, he walked a life that was as full as Paul's was. And he can relate to all of us and what we're going through in our lives. And I just, I feel like it's on my heart to just share it with anybody out there who's struggling. Like, Jesus understands. Jesus has been there. He's been through it. He gets it. And I think that, for me, that's, my relationship with him is not built on that, but it's so much bigger for that to know that Jesus actually walked this out in his lifetime. So, he gets it where I'm at right now, and he can relate with me in it, and he has empathy, and he loves me through it, has grace for me through it.
Yeah. Yeah. I hope that I can be more receptive. It's so hard sometimes. Like, I realize my own heart isn't always in the right place. And I think I want to be more receptive to letting him pour into me. I think that talking about today, letting him pour into me so he can do things to transform, as I said, like, in our relationship, to transform and have good things come out. And I think one of the ways that I can even look at it as, like, what good can come out of that is not necessarily, like, you know, where's my, like, prosperity or where's my, like, check raise or my salary raise or something like that, but it's got nothing to do with that. But just thinking of, like, the fruits of the spirit and, like, you know, is it producing more, like, peace on the inside or more hope or joy or, I actually do think, like, maybe that's one of the ways that I can know if I'm really, like, doing the things that I'm meant to be doing is, am I being fulfilled? Am I really having the fruits there? Because I think there'd be really something wrong if I was, like, let's say I was, like, super miserable all the time and, like, or just, like, really angry and frustrated, like, I think I probably wouldn't be doing the things that he wants to do in me somehow.
Yeah.
I mean, none of us are perfect, but just one last thing about that I was talking about earlier, that I really do believe that this whole thing is rigged in our favor. I mean, literally, like, no matter what happens, if Jesus' blood is right there, I mean, man, it blows my mind. And then still, there's fear. But still, we don't do things to be like Jesus because it's not easy. But yet, like, we already, we're winning there. So that, to me, is really important as well.
Actually, if I could just piggyback off that real quick. I recently had some big, heavy things hanging over me and kept going to God and praying and praying and praying, and I was trying to feel like I was the widow that kept going before the judge. Like, help me. help me. And finally, I heard the Holy Spirit say, I took care of the biggest thing you're ever going to need before you were even born. Your eternity is taken care of. I can manage this. You know, it's just like, this monumental eternity is done. It's paid for on the cross, and you'll never have to worry about that. This is nothing in comparison to that.
Right.
That's good.
That's good. Yeah. I think my last thought was my, as of right now, it's my final thought. The one before.
The one before.
So just hit the rewind button.
Yep.
Play that again.
Work your magic.
Hit the fast forward button to come back to now.
Well, yeah. There's a lot of adventure available for those who will do what God is calling them to do.
Like the life of Jesus, like the life of Paul. Action packed. There's a lot in there. There's a lot of influence, a lot of connection with people that, you know, that wouldn't have been reached otherwise.
Jesus was obedient to the father, and Paul followed Christ, and people were impacted and are being impacted.
There are things of this life that can, as the parable says, concerns of this life, worries of this life. Thorns can hinder growth in faith.
But when somebody trusts God along the way, then they are fruitful. And multiplication is kind of a theme of impact, kind of like this passage here in John, chapter 2, there was multiple gallons of wine that was produced out of doing what Jesus said. Likewise, as servants do what God tells them to do, there's multiplication, there's, as the parable says, and we didn't read it in this episode, but 30, 60, or 100 times what was sown. Multiplication is what happens. So, lots of good things, lots of good outcomes for those who are obedient and do what Jesus tells us to do. So well, thank you for joining us for another episode here of The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. Stay tuned for future episodes. Like or subscribe so you'll know when those finally arrive. But thanks for joining us.
Thanks everybody. Take care.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. If you enjoyed what you heard, we invite you to, like, share, subscribe, and give a five-star rating. Find us online at TheDefinedPodcast.com. Scripture quotations are from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
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