Episode Transcript
I feel like there's, we need an icebreaker.
Yeah?
Like there's a lot of ice in the room right now.
We got any jokes?
Recently though, I mean it's, maybe a little heavy. I had to take my. Oh, that should be a heavy pun. It wasn't though, sorry. I had to take my phone to the dentist and it turns out it had a bad case of Bluetooth.
Did you make that up?
Oh, no. Bluetooth.
Yeah, they said be there at 2:30. Tooth-hurty.
Oh my gosh.
That's pretty good.
I ordered a book and it was "How to Scam People Online." It's been six months, and I still haven't gotten it.
Well, welcome back to The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al., a Bible study in which panelists from a variety of backgrounds, including coaching, education, management, ministry, and psychology, seek hope and truth in what some would call austere times. I'm your host. My name is Chris, along with psychologist and author Dr. Jon Troll. That's not. I lost the train of thought. There's. There's a lot of cabooses on that train. Not a lot of substance. Not a lot of cars with substance on that train. Let's try again.
You're all a caboose. No cart.
We're also joined with special education teacher Robyn Nelson and educator and former missionary Josh Ferguson once again. Welcome everybody.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Hello.
Josh now enters the double appearance club. You're now in the, get your.
Two timers club. All right.
Got your big, your big number two badge.
We got your cake out there.
Out there, so.
Big number two, huh?
Yep, that's right.
It's a high honor.
Yep. Yeah. I don't know if we'll go with that one.
Oh, no. You said a big number two badge or something?
Yeah.
Just picturing a poop emoji, so.
Oh, yeah. Hey, it's the least we can do.
Welcome.
Well, welcome. We are continuing our study in the Book of John. We're in chapter 4. Our word of the day is "harvest." We're focusing on the word harvest as found in this passage here. I'll read verses 28 through 39 out of the ESV and then we'll open up with opening comments around the table.
"So the woman left her water jar and went away into town and said to the people, 'Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?' They went out of the town and were coming to him.
Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, saying, 'Rabbi, eat.' But he said to them, 'I have food to eat that you do not know about.' So the disciples said to one another, 'Has anyone brought him something to eat?' Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.'"
And then beginning in verse 35,
"'Do you not say, "There are yet four months, then comes the harvest"? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest. Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true, "One sows and another reaps." I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.'
Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, 'He told me all that I ever did.'”
All right, opening thoughts about the word "harvest" here, as Jesus indicated in that passage.
Yeah, so I thought. I thought. First thing that kind of struck me was how when Jesus was speaking to the Samaritan woman, the topic of water was brought up, obviously. And then Jesus uses that to then start talking about the water of life. And then when the disciples meet up with Jesus, the topic of food came up. And then Jesus uses that to talk about the harvest. And so, it's almost like—I mean, obviously, he's God, so he's always, you know, five steps ahead—but always taking what somebody says and going deeper with it and just finding that opportunity. And I love how it's just like, boom, boom. Like, we're not talking about just water. We're talking about living water. We're not just talking about food. We're talking about harvest. And so, both things are the physical. But then he always has this awesome way of, like, shifting it to the spiritual. And I just thought it was really cool that he did that right after he was speaking with the woman about water, he's speaking to disciples about food and harvest.
On a kind of a lighter note, I guess, I like how the Scripture says, Jesus says to disciples, "'I have food to eat that you do not know about.'" And, like, I'm trying to think, like, what that would be like in, like, today's context if, like, a buddy came up and was like, "Hey, you want some food?" And I'm like, "I have food that you don't know about." "Like, where is it at?"
It's like Uber, Uber Eats?
It's in my pocket.
Like how mysterious. It's in my pocket. Who wouldn't want to eat that?
I don't know. So, the disciples like, well, what's this food, Jesus, that you're talking about? And then he goes in obviously talking about the harvest. But I just thought that was kind of a, kind of a funny thing that the disciples might have thought about. But anyways, that was just a couple of opening thoughts.
Yeah, that's good. I didn't think of it like that.
Opening thought for me, I suppose would be, it's interesting Jesus is, you know, talking to somebody that the disciples are kind of surprised later, like, oh, why is he talking to this lady? But he just jumps right in like Jon was saying to this spiritual level that the disciples aren't thinking about at the time. Right? And sometimes they're probably thinking very spiritually. They're hanging out with Jesus, doing ministry. Right now, it's just like meeting physical needs, gonna go get some food, things like that. But they come back to Jesus right in the middle of deep diving with her, and it's because he's thinking on a different level, he's seeing on a different level. And this idea of harvest, that there's people that are ready or close to ready or, you know, ready to be harvested for the kingdom is, yeah, it's interesting. It's good. I'm excited to talk more about it.
Yeah.
Yeah. My opening thought was I was thinking about there are many different references to the harvest in the Bible. And in this particular one, he's talking about, you guys say, four months in the harvest. And to me, it kind of just denoted a question of timing and thinking of in Ecclesiastes, where it kind of talks about, like, if a man waits for perfect weather to sow a seed, like, he's never going to sow a seed. And I just wondered if there was potentially like, a correlation between that thought and this one. I have a hard, sometimes with these, like, parables, I have a hard time because I like to see, like, a literal, like, representation of what he's talking about. But I didn't want to spend too much time in that.
You're like one of the disciples.
Yeah.
What do you mean?
I'm like a disciple in that way. Yeah.
That's right.
Explain this to me. Yeah.
One thought here is just that the context of when it happened, it was at Samaria or at the Samaritan, at his encounter with this Samaritan woman, that he brings up this concept of harvest with the disciples. And these were the people that culturally, the disciples weren't really having anything to do with them. They were, there was a divide and, but Jesus is introducing this concept of harvest, like, these people are ripe for, like, the kingdom. Right?
And the thing about harvest is that a seed had to have been planted at some point in the past. And as we kind of talked about in an earlier episode, like the Samaritans, they had been introduced to concepts of Judaism, the God of Israel, and yet they weren't fully, they've just kind of incorporated him into other gods. And yet that was like a seed that was planted. That's like, that counts as a seed.
And so, I think there's like a lesson there to not, like, discount what seed could have been in someone's life, whether it's a people group or an individual, even if they aren't practicing things in a way that appear, you know, fully, well, harvested. They're not harvested yet, right?
Yeah.
They're like in a state of growth—as seeds do, they grow—but not to despise that in them, in looking at them. And so, how could we possibly apply that today, right? Like, what people group or what person, individual might we look at and not even, it might not even come to mind. Like this, I don't know, this person, let's say they're 10, 20, 30, 40 years old or whatever, well, that's a lot of time for a seed to grow in their life. Right?
Right.
And do we take that into account that there is something growing there?
Well, the fact that it was the Samaritans, because the Jews would walk the long way around. Right? And so, it's like Samaria. So, there's this. There's this apple tree not far from my house. And when, whenever I drive by it and it's like harvesting fruit. I mean, like, it's, growing fruit. There's, no one in the house is there to pick it. It's just. It's just on. It's just on the tree, and then it drops to the ground and then the apples die, and no one does anything with it.
Samaria, it kind of reminds me of that tree if Jesus doesn't intervene. It's like they would just keep driving by it, keep on going past it, and because of prejudice. And it's like. But the seeds have been planted long ago in Samaria. And Jesus is like these, like, these are the, this is a people group that is ripe. It's like they want to know about me. And if you're letting prejudice to interfere with that, then, you know, you're going to be driving by and you're just going to see the fruit die on the vine. And that was. Yeah, so I think that that's no coincidence that it was Samaria that Jesus started this whole, you know, this part of the revolution.
Yeah. That's good stuff.
I'll add on to that. So, part of her understanding when she's talking to Jesus, just verses earlier there about where people should worship, she says,
“'I know that Messiah is coming,'" and then it includes, "'(he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.'”
So, she even had this idea that within the Jewish belief there would be a Messiah that would be able to, whether she's picturing that as a prophet or something, that he would be able to expand further and take them deeper than they already understood. So, she had some hope that she would know more someday, apparently.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's true. And then. And then if. Yeah, she had the hope, and then if no one was there to like, fulfill, to help her out with that, like we hope for something to happen and nothing ever happened, then she just lives her whole life hoping.
Yeah.
Right? And Jesus is like, no, don't let people just keep hoping.
Right.
Like, go to them.
Right. Yeah.
Harvest them.
Yeah.
Yeah. And what did the harvest look like? Like, his actions then kind of indicate what he was doing in reaping a harvest. So, what did he actually do? He was talking with her, he was answering questions, he was interacting with or, you know, some might consider it kind of defiant as she might have been or maybe who, you know,
Seemingly.
The tone is a little hard to pick on, but.
A little salty.
To pick up on. But maybe, I mean, like, who are you? You greater than Jacob? You know, who, you know.
Actually.
And yet he persevered through that. He engaged with her through that.
Yeah.
And eventually she felt seen by him, which was kind of an element of that harvest was to be acknowledged.
Right. Yeah.
Even if she was trying to not be acknowledged, if she was going out of her way to perhaps avoid being seen. So.
Yeah. So, there was, another thing that kind of stood out to me in this kind of a bigger, wider view is this seems kind of like a micro version of like, the sowing and the reaping in general. Like in the bigger picture. Right? So, Jesus, it seems like, yeah, Jesus sowed into this woman and then, you know, that was kind of an immediate, like, harvest sowed and reaped kind of all in one.
Yeah.
But obviously there was sowing that went on way before that. And then the, then that was a ripple effect into the town. And then, like, then she started to spread the gospel herself. And so, it kind of just shows definitely how ready, even more than, you know, just she was ready for it. But then I thought it was interesting because I was looking to see what happened next in the Gospels. And this was, this actually takes place, it seems, not too far before Jesus sends the disciples out two by two. And so, it's like this little lesson saying, look, like people are ready, even the people that you're not suspecting to be ready. Because I'm going to send you out, and y'all are going to experience some people and some places that maybe you're not used to or, you know, you might have some, you know, kickback, but people are ready. And so proof to you is, look, Samaria's ready. And if Samaria is ready, then other people are ready too.
Right.
And then he sends them out two by two. Now go and do what I just did. So that was kind of cool that this leads up to sending them out two by two.
Would we, before we go, like, further into this, would we have, like, a good definition of what harvest is for those who are, like, not familiar? Because it's not just wheat.
A bunch of farmers, like, "I love this podcast." We really went up in Ohio.
Physically, harvest is when you bring in the fruit of the labor of the farming or the, whatever's been planted, it's now time to bring it in. The fruit of the labor.
Yeah.
Then paralleled spiritually, Jesus likes to use those physical analogies for the spiritual side of it.
There's a separate parable where the, I think the disciples asked point blank, like, what does it mean? And he actually went through each element of this parable and said, the harvest is. I should look it up, but.
Yeah, it'd be good.
He does indicate in a separate part where they were asking. They didn't know some of these parables.
Yeah.
Of course, this is an actual account here with the woman at the well. But he does use some words there that are, that might have, you know, raised some questions, like what, yeah, what is the harvest? It's called the Parable of the Weeds.
Is that the Matthew 13?
Matthew 13.
Do you have it?
I do.
Do you want to read it?
Do I?
"He answered, 'The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.'"
That's good.
Excellent. Good.
There's a commentary by Matthew Henry and when talking about the harvest, he says,
"Christ compares his work to harvest-work. The harvest is appointed and looked for before it comes; so was the gospel. Harvest-time is busy time; all must be then at work. Harvest-time is a short time, and harvest-work must be done then, or not at all; so the time of the gospel is a season, which if once past, cannot be recalled."
And to me that kind of throws back to like the imagery of the apple tree where once the apples are off the tree, it's too late. I mean once they've spoiled, it's done. Right? So, this, so harvest time is a season. And if harvest equals gospel, then there's only a window that we have to share the gospel with the people around us.
Right.
Eventually it will be done. Harvest time will be over at some point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. A phrase that's been in my mind for quite a few years now—and I just tend to think of it towards life in general, but it applies maybe more importantly to opportunity for the gospel as well—would be "limited time only." You see this with advertisements or "limited time offer," like life is a limited time offer. And when I remind myself of that, it kind of refocuses things, keeps priorities in perspective. And while in a sense there's the window of our whole lifetime or someone else's whole lifetime to receive the Lord, we don't know how long that lifetime is. So, it doesn't mean we have to rush around like crazy in a way that is not fruitful or does, ignores relationship, but it is a, just a simple little phrase that helps me remind, remind myself that this is a limited time offer. All that we invest is limited.
Yeah, and it's that verse 39 of John 4, which, to kind of go along with like, "What is harvest? What are we talking about here?", it says, "Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, 'He told me all that I ever did.'"
So, believing in him, believing in Jesus, that's the harvest, right? That is the, if we're looking for more, even more definition to what that is, it's believing in Jesus. That's harvest, right?
Right.
And if they don't yet believe in him, that just means there could be a seed that's still growing or, there's even time still to plant seeds.
Right. Well, in that, in this little passage, it says, like, the sowers and the reapers will rejoice together, which makes me think that there are sowers and there are reapers. And maybe at different times in our lives, we are one or the other, or we're both or whatnot, but it takes both. At some point, a seed has to be sown. At some point, reapers, reapers gotta reap.
Sowers gotta sow.
Sowers gotta sow. But I think, like, for me, that's like a broader conversation on each of our roles in the church.
Yeah. And in Ephesians, Paul kind of addresses that, how people have different parts in this, in this harvest, right? In Ephesians, chapter 4, starting in verse 4,
"There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it says,
'When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.'"
In verse 9,
"(In saying, 'He ascended,' what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)"
Then in verse 11,
"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."
So. And it goes on. But basically, yeah, there's different roles, there's different aspects of work in the church. And some of the gifts are to apostles, prophets, evangelists, as he said, there, so.
Yeah.
And different gifts.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible, to that point, it says the harvest, speaking about the harvest,
"It is a united work. It matters little whether we sow the seed or whether we reap the harvest. It is part of the same work, and whatever part we may do, we should rejoice. God gives the increase, while Paul may plant and Apollos water. The teacher in the Sunday school, who sows the seed in early life, shall rejoice with the minister of the gospel who may gather in the harvest, and both join in giving all the praise to God."
And so, yeah, it's some sow, some reap. And there's different, I guess, giftings for different people.
Right.
Different parts of the body that make up the whole.
Yeah.
And we all have our, I mean, like, I don't know, maybe this will change sometime in the future, but I'm pretty sure I'm more of a sower than a reaper. Just looking back at my life, like, I mean, it's like, yeah.
I've had that same thought. And actually, I don't remember where I read it, but somebody commented on sowing, it's almost like a strategic thing of, like, having to look at the condition of someone's heart to, like, know. Because they were referring to that Scripture in Matthew 13 on the different types of soil and kind of understanding what kind of soil they're sowing into in order to, like, bear the most fruit. And so, I think that does speak to, like, someone's own character or their own talents, their, like, their skill set, I guess. And the way that they read and kind of know people. And then the way I picture reapers is just someone with a big old hoe just coming in and, like, getting it done. But that's probably. There's probably more to it than that.
Well, I mean, it's like a Billy Graham crusade.
Yeah.
It's like thousands, hundreds, whatever, they come towards the front because, like, the seeds have been planted. And then finally there's the opportunity. And it's like where everything, you know, it hits at the same time.
Right.
There's a seed planted, the Holy Spirit is speaking to the person, and there's the opportunity and the invitation. And so, all things start working together at that time. And everybody has a hand in that. I mean, the, if the seed was never sown, I mean, it's like they say, like someone, like, brought Billy Graham to Christ.
Yeah.
And then Billy Graham then brought thousands.
So, it's like everybody has their thing and not to despise, you know what.
Your own role. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can I read, The Barnes' Notes referred to this passage in 1 Corinthians 3? Yeah, it. So, Paul's addressing some of the divisions. People are arguing about who they follow. And so, like, in chapter 3, verse 4,
"For when one says, 'I follow Paul,' and another, 'I follow Apollos,' are you not being merely human?"
So, don't just be human.
"What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building."
And so, this idea that, like, he's kind of saying, I mean, we're all valuable, but he's saying, whatever part you play, that's not what matters because ultimately God's the one who brings that harvest. Whether you're planting or, you know, reaping or sowing, it puts it back to: God gives the growth. Only God gives the growth. So, whether you're that evangelist that sees people get saved all the time, or someone who just plants seeds, relationally; ultimately, it's on God, whether that's happening, you know, where the growth comes from. I think that's a good, good perspective Paul adds there.
Which is a really good perspective on trusting the Lord to, like, bring someone into his kingdom. Like, we're sowing seeds all the time and praying for people and not necessarily seeing fruit of that in the meantime and trusting that the Lord is causing that growth to happen.
Right.
Because I think of, like, I mean, I met Jesus at 15, and I didn't necessarily, like, have a church background at all. And I sometimes think about the people in my life, like, I don't know about you guys, but I look back and I'm like, "Who was praying for me?" Like, "Who was the one?" Like. And there are some people that I speculate now, like, after the fact, but I always wonder that because the person who prayed for me to come to faith I'd never met before. Like, it was a youth camp and it was a youth pastor, and he took advantage of an opportunity to, like, pray. And he was spot on because that was a transformative time for me. It was like, I was ripe for the picking. But, like, I think that I wonder about that too. Like, we're sowing so much sometimes, and it's that allowing the Lord to bring the fruit forward right at the right time. So.
Yeah, that's good.
Well, another thought is that it's interesting that Jesus said, you know, like, can't you see that the harvest is here? And usually when Jesus was talking about something, he's kind of like indicating to his listeners like this wouldn't be the first time you've ever heard of this. Or you know, like he'd tell the, I think it was the Pharisees, like, have you not read in the Scriptures? Or did you not know this already? How is it you do not know this? To Nicodemus, you know, as if there's Old Testament support, and there is, for what he's talking about. And yet it's, it appears like a new concept to them at that time. So, with this idea of harvest, like what kind of background is there in the Old Testament for harvest that they can have, you know, new understanding of, and it's interesting that there's like a Feast of Harvest or a Feast of Weeks is what it's called. And that, you know, a lot of times we make the connection, no problem with the Passover and Jesus, that's another festival. There's also this festival of the harvest and that correlates with Pentecost. I think there's like a 50-day time span between, from what I can read here, between Passover and the Feast of Harvest. There's no coincidences in the calendar, you know, with why the Holy Spirit came upon them to go out and minister to people, to bring a harvest among Jerusalem, Judea, the ends of the earth at that time of when historically they were experiencing harvest in the Jewish calendar there. So, there's correlations there. And Jesus is bringing to light like this is kind of what this was leading up to. This is this is what it's really about. This is what it, what you think it's about. And then this is what it's really about.
Well, there's this. If there's harvest to do, then there's harvesters. And there's this parable that Jesus tells in Luke chapter 19. It does seem very relevant to the harvest. And this is the parable of the master giving servants something to take care of and then he expects something upon his return. So, in Luke chapter 19, starting in verse 11 out of the ESV,
"As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. He said therefore, 'A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return. Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten minas, and said to them, "Engage in business until I come." But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, "We do not want this man to reign over us."'"
Verse 15,
"'When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business. The first came before him, saying, "Lord, your mina has made ten minas more." And he said to him, "Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities." And the second came, saying, "Lord, your mina has made five minas." And he said to him, "And you are to be over five cities." Then another came, saying, "Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief; for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You take what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow." He said to him, "I will condemn you with your own words, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?" And he said to those who stood by, "Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas." And they said to him, "Lord, he has ten minas!" "I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me."'"
And there's a similar parable in Matthew chapter 25, but just some observations there is that these are the, it appears to be the workers of the harvest. And there's some language that's similar to this passage in John chapter 4. It says, "'"reap what you did not sow."'" Well, that's the very instruction that Jesus said to them, I sent you out to reap what you did not sow.
And the servant who has a, who takes issue with that, if for some reason they think that that's either unjust or they despise the master's tactics, or they just have a misunderstanding, you know, because it would seem that the master did so at some point in the past, you know, like there's, if we take this concept of Old Testament prophets sowing, and then they're working together, right?
Right.
The Old and New Testament working together for harvest. If that person perhaps doesn't view the master as being part of the Old Testament. So, I'm saying that if this servant doesn't acknowledge Jesus as present and active in the Old Testament, like he's just somebody in the New Testament only, not the Messiah, then they, then that person might not engage in the harvest, perhaps.
Right.
It's just some, just some possibilities. I'm like, why would this person do that? Why would this person not engage in the work that they were told to do? So.
Yeah.
Distrusted or didn't believe the master, perhaps?
Something like that. Yeah.
Right.
So. So anyway, yeah. That, the words, they're reaping what I did not sow, that, that's just. It's like in direct opposition to the very instructions that Jesus had to them, which I think is interesting.
Right.
And that's why I think that there's a similarity here, that it. This is in regards to harvesting souls, right?
Yeah.
I mean.
I think there's an easy parallel there, actually.
And then in the Matthew 25 account, it's similar, it's told in a similar way, but in that one, he gives what seems like a large portion to one, like a medium portion to the second, and like a small portion to the third.
Yeah.
But in each of those accounts, when he brings them into report, he says, "'"You have been faithful over a little."'"
So even the one who had a lot to begin with, the master calls that a little. The one who had a medium amount, the master calls that a little. And so, in this life, it seems like regardless of what resources a person has spiritually, whether it be something big or small, it seems like God says it's all little in his eyes, right?
Yeah. That goes back to what Josh was talking about when it's like, it's, or the passage, a Scripture that he read, is like, yeah, you might be sowing, you might be reaping, but don't take and don't pat yourself on the back. It's God, it's Jesus. Like, this is actually the person that is the ultimate harvester.
Yeah.
And there seems to be a kind of like a word of warning to the person who has the one, so, in using that Matthew 25 example there. Because it's the person with the one that didn't engage in attempting to gain. And we've talked about, like, the feeding of the 5,000 and how Jesus used a little, right, loaves and fish to feed many. And we referred to the Old Testament when the widow had a little bit of oil or, you know, to give to the prophet and that was used. The word of caution is for the one the person with the little amount.
Yeah.
And so, there's sort of this, in Western thinking that—not everybody, but some people—think that, like, "Hang on to the little that you have, the billionaires are bad," and this kind of challenges that thought a little bit. Because God really wants that little bit.
Right.
He really wants that little bit engaged in harvest activity.
Right.
And it's not a valid excuse to say it's only a little bit or.
Well, in the way that you were just explaining that, I've never thought of it that way where, like, he's looking at the master as being severe, so he just decides he's not going to. I've always read it as, like, he only had a little bit, so he was fearful of trying to, like, take a risk in investing it or doing business and losing what he already had. I've never thought of it the way that you just described that. That's really interesting to me.
It's kind of like a "My Precious" thing going on.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like, just gonna hold onto it.
Just gonna hoard it. And, like. And I think it's a very, like, very real thing that people fear that kind of thing because they don't know that a risk they're gonna take is gonna turn out the way that they're hoping.
Well, it's probably why they highlighted the widow's mite also, where she gave all that she had. And, like, Jesus is like, she gave more than everybody.
Right.
And the people kind of looking down on her.
Yeah.
But, yeah, there's like this recurring theme it seems for sure that it's like, no, it's the little.
Yeah.
Going after that.
Well, and then like in those parables, like, if you're going to be faithful with the little I give you, then he gives them more. And so, if God can trust us with the little that we have, then he will still give us, he will give us more. But if he can't trust us even with a little bit, why would he give us more responsibility?
And in God's eyes, even the billionaires is a little bit.
Right.
Right.
It's all little bit.
It's true. Yeah.
You know, compared with the eternal heavenly reward to come. Right?
Right. It's, yeah, it is interesting that God, it sure seems, is a God that expects interest. Right? It's like once you've received Christ, it's, you don't just sit on it.
Right.
You don't just, like, then go into your, you know, your house, and then it's your own personal thing, which is, obviously salvation is very personal, but it's like, but don't just sit on it.
It's not just for you.
Don't put your light under a basket. Right? That's like that part of it, too. And so, it's like, if at the end of all of this, when it's all said and done, and God's probably asking—not necessarily, I don't think it's just about harvesters—I think that this is about, like, what did you do with what I gave you?
Yeah.
I mean, if you were a sower, great. Did you sow anything? Were you showing love? Right? Were you actually displaying the fruit of your salvation to those around you?
Yeah.
And I think that it's not a matter of like, a tally of like, how many souls that you individually get with you to get to heaven. Right? It's, no, you are a part of the body of Christ. Right? And again, if, like, if you were a pinky toe, did you help balance, did you do your role well?
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah. I think that that, that whole, your, the discussion here comes down to obedience. Right? So, God's given us some set of gifts and personality and talents and experience and all these things, and he's going to ask us to do different things in our different daily lives and big moments and small moments. Ultimately, it's, are we being obedient? Because if we're being obedient, that will involve the investing aspect of giving back what he's given us to try and benefit other people. But, yeah, it might look real different for different people what that obedience looks like.
Yeah.
Then God brings the harvest.
Yeah.
And then we still get to work the harvest.
Right. And it's not to get, like, yeah, envious about what other people are doing. And like, if it looks more flashy, or if someone's on, you know, TV and they have like, whatever, you know, all these people watching. And, like, "but all I have is like my mini mart that I," you know.
Right.
It's like, good.
Yeah.
That's fantastic. That's, that could very well be exactly where you're supposed to be.
Yeah.
Maybe it's for a season, maybe it's for a lifetime, but praise God that you're there.
Yeah.
There's a passage at the end of the Gospel of John where Peter, right after he's reinstated by Jesus, like, do you love me? He does it three times. Seems like a kind of, you know, bringing him back after the three denials. But then he sees John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, as John refers to himself. It's pretty awesome.
My man.
But Peter's like, what about him? And Jesus says, what is it to you?
Right.
What if I, you know, it says something along the lines, what if I want him to stay until I come back? And it says, there became a rumor that John wouldn't die until Jesus came back. But some direct language that made it, maybe that worked well for Peter and he needed that direct, like, what's that to you? And I don't want to add too much emotion to it, not knowing exactly how Jesus said it, but it's kind of a little bit of a rebuke of like, hey, you keep in mind what I just, I just said feed my sheep, right? Tend my sheep, care for my sheep. I just gave you a mission. And you're like, but what about John? And I know in different seasons, I've read that and been quite convicted of, like, "Wow, I keep comparing myself to this person or this, these other millions of things that other people are doing," and it's kind of like, well, what is that to you?
Right.
Well, it's something to my pride. There's not a good answer to it. Or like, I was just, I could imagine Peter, I was just curious.
Well, yeah. Comparison, and as you mentioned, envy, those can be, you know, major hindrances. Right? And the word "harvest" appears in the book of James, almost, kind of in the middle. It's on chapter 3, verse 18,
"And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."
And then all around it, there's like talking about, well, just after that, it says in verse 1 of chapter 4,
"What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you?"
So right after it's talking about a harvest, this book, as I'm reading, as flipping through James here and looking, it almost seems like it's addressing what could be hindrances to harvest. And it's the envy and the quarrels and the fights among the believers.
Interesting. Yeah.
Well.
And if you read it that way, like, we've got something very important to do where the workers that God has sent out to bring a harvest, and then this book of James here, it's saying, like, things like in chapter 3 and verse 8,
"but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison."
So, here's a warning about what you're saying, how this can maybe hinder the harvest. Quarrels and fights, chapter 4, verse 1. Boasting. And later in chapter 4. It's just all these things can be, like, could these be things that the person with the one is engaging in perhaps that isn't actively getting the harvest? Like, well, then what are they doing with their time? Well, maybe they're doing all these things mentioned the book of James.
Right.
You know, being unproductive in that way. So, if there's, could be a lot of practical steps of things to kind of evaluate oneself. Right?
Well, like a couple of farmers that are arguing while they're supposed to be out there harvesting their wheat field, and then their wheat field just goes to crap. Right? It's like while you're pissing and moaning in the, in your guys' like, you know, yards, it's like all your crops just.
Just got a very literal visual of that in my mind.
It's like, yo, like the, you're losing all your stuff.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It took me way too long to kind of see the correlation. Did you guys, I mean, if you would maybe explain this a little bit further, but they start this off with like, can someone get this guy something to eat. And then he's like, I've got food you know not of. And then he starts talking about the harvest. And in my mind, initially I was like, well, there goes Jesus changing the subject again. But like, the harvest is a direct, like, it's what is needed in order for them to make bread. And so, it is like a very actually on point transition, I guess.
He didn't change the subject at all did he?
He didn't change the subject at all. And then he's talking about, like, what feeds me is doing my Father's will kind of thing. I just thought that was super interesting that he didn't change the subject at all. And I, it makes me want to like, look into that even further as far as, like, what, how satisfying that is to do the work of the kingdom, you know, like that he's like, he's comparing it to his very nourishment. As if to say, like, if you're not participating in this, like, you are spiritually famished.
Yeah. If that's a part of what we're supposed to be doing and that's a part of like, if that's his food, then why wouldn't it be our food also spiritually?
Yeah.
Right? So, yeah, it's good.
All right, well, closing thoughts as we wrap up this topic of harvest?
So, a little bit past the passage. So, Jesus ends by saying,
"'I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.'”
Then it goes on to say,
"Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, 'He told me all that I ever did.' So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. And many more believed because of his word."
I thought it was cool that not only did Jesus minister to the Samaritan woman, but he stayed with the Samaritans for two days. And I think that speaks something to once we're starting to experience perhaps the harvest, well, what do we do with that? And that probably goes into a little bit of like discipleship or goes into spending time with the people that we've been able to have a positive impact on. And just taking note from Jesus, he didn't go quickly away. Like they offered, they asked him to stay and he stayed for two days. And David Jeremiah in his study Bible, he, you know, he kind of makes mention like, well, Jesus was probably pretty busy at this point. Like he was, like, the ministry was up and running and things were starting to kind of ramp up a bit more and, but he stayed two days with the people that wanted to hear more.
Yeah.
And it was after, it says, "And many more believed because of his word." I mean, first he went and stayed with them for two days and then many more believed. So, I think there's also a call to spend time with people and to be like human with people and to hang out with them also because it's not just about, you know, sowing and reaping, of course, but Jesus hung with them too, and he made himself available.
Yeah, I suppose it would be easy to talk about harvest and for some people only focus on distant places, far off nations. But we've, I think in our generalities of talking about, we're thinking about in our day-to-day life, which is where most of it's going to happen.
Yeah.
I've had, you know, as a missionary, I had some unique opportunities. I was again more of, I was more of a support role. I'd come in and help out however they needed help. But visiting people in what to me is the remotest parts of the earth and finding the same hope and joy and life in people that had received Jesus who had a totally different cultural background than me—not that I was the one who brought the gospel or anything, just meeting other believers from literally jungle huts to a inner city in Thailand—it was, where am I going with that? I don't know. It was a blessing to see the fruit of the harvest around the world. And often, sometimes that was through missionaries, but ideally, then after that, it's local people reaching their own people, just like we're called to do where we live right now. And we may be called to go as well. But whether we're here or there or each person has that some, well, we all have that call to be a part of reaching the lost and through relationship, through sharing the gospel. And just kind of big picture view, it's exciting to me to think of people everywhere, hopefully having a heart. Now, I know I don't always think this way. Jesus says, lift up your eyes, kind of like notice what's there. I don't always think that way. And I want the Lord to increase that in me. In Revelation, we see a picture of heaven and there's people from every tribe and tongue and nation worshiping the lamb, you know, worshiping Jesus. And that's the end result of the harvest. And right now, we get to be a part of that whatever little bit it feels like, or big bit, it, you know.
Yeah.
"I only have one mina or mina."
Right.
But it's exciting because we know that God's going to use his people to grow his kingdom and bring people from all over into a very diverse heaven because there's going to be people from all these different cultures that currently exist and from, you know, since the gospel's been being shared.
Yeah.
Exciting.
Yeah. That's awesome. That's good.
Robyn.
Well, I looked up yesterday, like, what sowers and harvesters actually did. And I can't really tell you, but one thing is that the harvesters that I hadn't thought of before, but it appeared that they always worked in groups. Like it was a community activity. It was a community event that, like, families and whole communities would get together to pull this harvest together for their own, obviously, consumption and whatnot. And I just thought that that was really interesting because I always thought of it as, like, people would just go and like, pull the harvest, but it seems like so many other things that the Lord is leading us to, that it is centered around being the body of Christ and being a part of the greater church, and that these are things that we can't do in and of ourselves and we're not expected to.
And not working alone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, we can think that, or we might have a tendency to think that time or space separates us from the sowers. You know, as reapers, we might think that we're not connected with them as closely as we are because of our understanding of physical limitations or whatever. But spiritually speaking, we are connected with them. We are working in groups, in a sense, with the sowers, so that, like I said, sowers and reapers can rejoice together. So.
Yeah.
But if at anytime someone feels alone in their efforts, I think the Bible would encourage you to remember that you are, in fact working with those who sowed the seed previously.
Right. Yeah.
And that you're not alone in your harvest work, whether it be a missionary on foreign lands or somewhere in your own place of influence, that there are things that you might not have seen, seeds that were planted, that you are actually actively partaking with and helping reap that harvest. So.
Yeah, could I actually read something that kind of goes in with that? So, it's an encouragement for those who might not, you know, feel like they're seeing the results so much. So, this is from J.C. Ryle. He says,
Do our hands ever hang down, and our knees wax faint? Do we feel disposed to say, "my labor is in vain and my words without profit"? Let us lean back at such seasons on this glorious promise. There are "wages" yet to be paid. There is "fruit" yet to be exhibited.
"For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing." [ESV]
Let us work on.
"He that goes forth and weeps, bearing the precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him." [JUB]
One single soul saved, shall outlive and outweigh all the kingdoms of the world.
That's kind of a cool encouragement there.
Yeah, very cool. Well, that wraps up this episode of The Defined Podcast w/ Dr. Jon et al. Thank you to our panel and thank you for listening. We look forward to another episode soon.
Take care, everybody.
Scripture quotations are from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved. The ESV text may not be quoted in any publication made available to the public by a Creative Commons license. The ESV may not be translated in whole or in part into any other language.
